Posted by
Robert Holmes on
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Score-one-for-small-scale-distributed-power-tp518737p518758.html
You've hit the nail on the head Dede. From a purely insular view we use too
much energy: the US grid is carrying about as much energy it can, as demand
increases the margins of avaailable line capacity decrease and cascading
failures become ever more likely.
And of course from a global view, we use too much energy. We use a heck of a
lot more energy per capita than the rest of the world and it's not because
we're busy making the world a better place (least ways not for anyone but
ourselves). This also illustrates why energy efficiency programs aren't much
use: reductions of 10% or so are superficial when we're all consuming about
500% more than the rest of the world. IMHO, the main effect of efficiency
programs is indeed to make us feel virtuous and help us feel we've done our
bit. As such it diverts us from taking any actions that might have a real
effect (and I've no idea what those actions are, as I'm as guilty of this
false virtue as anyone).
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From:
[hidden email] [mailto:
[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Dede Densmore
Sent: 15 August 2003 22:20
To: The Friday Morning Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Score one for small-scale distributed power
score one for complexity? it seems to me that the issue is not only the
scale of power distribution but, perhaps more importantly, the diversity (or
lack
thereof) of sources of power generation at whatever scale. every source of
power has disadvantages. the trick is to minimize the impact of any one set
of disadvantages while still providing sufficient power. and yes, we all
need to put or heads together to deal with the issue of "sufficient" power.
we all would like to feel virtuous, but none of us wants to have to choose
between coffee and internet access or refrigeration and hot water.
dede
Frank Wimberly wrote:
> My impression is that burning wood (esp. pine tar) causes noxious air
> pollution. Anyone know for sure? It smells good around here in
> December but... How long would it take before the unwanted wood, say
> pinions killed by bark beetles, runs out? Would "we" be able to
> resist burning good timber? In the lobby of the First National Bank
> of Santa Fe there are photos of the hills around Santa Fe taken in the
> late 1800's. The density of the pinion and juniper was much less than
> it is today. My friend Tom Noble thinks that's because everyone
> burned those trees for heat. I am more inclined to believe that there
> was something like a bark beetle infestation before that time.
>
> Frank
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Sawhill" <
[hidden email]>
> To: "The Friday Morning Complexity Coffee Group" <
[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Bruce Sawhill" <
[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 7:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Score one for small-scale distributed power
>
> > In the latest IEEE magazine, there's an interesting article about
> > absorbing fluctuations in wind power on the big island of Hawai'i.
> > Could also apply to many small wood fired plants, though the
> > fluctuations shouldn't be so large.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > On Friday, August 15, 2003, at 02:43 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> >
> > > One advantage of the current approach is that if some component
> > > goes down the grid is still there (usually!) and end users may
> > > never even know there
> > > was a problem. Does this scale down? If Truchas' turbine stripped
its
> > > gears could the one at Trampas provide backup?
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > ---
> > > Frank C. Wimberly 505 995-8715 or
505
> > > 670-9918 (mobile)
> > > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz
> > >
[hidden email]
> > > or
[hidden email]
> > > Santa Fe, NM 87505
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/wimberly> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Carl Tollander
> > > To:
[hidden email] ; The Friday Morning Complexity Coffee Group
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 7:11 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [FRIAM] Score one for small-scale distributed power
> > >
> > >
> > > "due to natural causes"
> > > Once again, the invisible hand presents us with an invisible
> > > finger.
> > >
> > > I would think that small-scale power (neighborhood microturbines
> > > or constellations thereof) might damp out the effects of the large
> > > scale failures (and associated grime-waves), not get rid of them
> > > entirely.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
[hidden email]
> > > [mailto:
[hidden email]]On
> > > Behalf Of Belinda Wong-Swanson
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 4:20 PM
> > > To:
[hidden email];
[hidden email]
> > > Subject: [FRIAM] Score one for small-scale distributed power
> > >
> > >
> > > Power Outages Hit
> > > New York, Other Cities
> > >
> > > NEW YORK -- A massive power blackout hit U.S. and Canadian cities
> > > Thursday, closing nuclear power plants in Ohio and New York state,
> > > driving workers in
> > > New York City and Toronto into the streets, and shutting subways in
> > > blistering heat. The blackout apparently was due to natural causes and
> > > there
> > > was no sign of terrorism, officials in New York and Washington said.
> > >
> > > New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg said it was likely the
> > > blackout started in the Niagara Falls area and quickly spread.
> > >
> > >
> > > Reporting by Stacy Forster and Carl Bialik of The Wall Street
> > > Journal Online, with contributions from the Associated Press and
> > > Dow Jones Newswires.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "It was probably a natural occurrence which disrupted the power
> > > system up there and apparently for reasons we don't know it
> > > cascaded down through New
> > > York state over into Connecticut, as far south as New Jersey and as
> > > far west
> > > as Ohio," he said.
> > >
> > > A senior law enforcement official, speaking on condition of
> > > anonymity, said the Federal Bureau of Investigation had determined
> > > the blackout was a "natural occurrence" and there was no evidence
> > > of terrorism, and that the
> > > Homeland Security Department agreed.
> > >
> > > Power was slowly returning to New York state by 6 p.m., about two
> > > hours after the outage, Mr. Bloomberg told reporters at City Hall.
> > > Still, he said it would be "hours, not minutes" before power was
> > > fully restored to New York
> > > City. In New York, the blackout affected subways, elevators and
> > > airports,
> > > including John F. Kennedy and LaGuardia airports.
> > >
> > > Many Workers Are Stranded
> > >
> > > Thousands of Manhattan workers were sent home early from work into
> > > the 90-degree heat, but many had no easy way of getting home.
> > >
> > > At the Canal Street subway station downtown, streams of people
> > > emerged covered in grime.
> > >
> > > Anthony Daliva, a computer technician from New Jersey who works
> > > downtown, was among them. He described being on the train when it
> > > stopped right past
> > > the station. After being trapped for about an hour in what he
> > > described as
> > > incredible heat -- and darkness except for emergency lights -- he and
> > > others
> > > climbed between the trains and up a ladder on the side of track toward
> > > the
> > > street light. His blue shirt and khaki pants were covered in dirt.
> > >
> > > Near Canal Street, Erika Pietsch, a TV producer who lives in
> > > Astoria, Queens, across the East River, said she had to evacuate
> > > her building. "I'm trying to figure out my plan of attack to get
> > > home," she said.
> > >
> > > Traffic lights were out. Mike Greenfield, a construction
> > > estimator, was stuck in traffic on Watts Street near the Holland
> > > Tunnel, where police were directing traffic. Mr. Greenfield was
> > > coming back from Queens headed west to
> > > Freehold, N.J., and says he is used to bad traffic. "It's like this
> > > everyday," he said.
> > >
> > > Ralph St. Pierre said he was on the subway in between stations
> > > when the power went out and the train stopped. He said he followed
> > > the conductor out of the tunnel. Later, people could be seen
> > > streaming out of subway stations.
> > >
> > > Several ice-cream stores in Manhattan said they wouldn't be giving
> > > away their goods, which are melting without power for
> > > refrigeration. "I don't want to give it out," said Steven Chan,
> > > proprietor of a Baskin Robbins in
> > > the Lower East Side neighborhood. "Otherwise, there would be a riot."
> > >
> > > In Toronto, Canada's largest city, workers also fled their
> > > buildings after the blackout hit shortly after 4 p.m. EDT. There
> > > also were widespread outages in Ottawa, the capital.
> > >
> > > Traffic lights were out throughout downtown Cleveland and other
> > > major cities, creating havoc at the beginning of rush hour.
> > >
> > > There were reports of outages in northern New Jersey and in
> > > several Vermont towns. In Connecticut, Metro-North Railroad
> > > service was knocked out. Lights
> > > flickered at state government buildings in Hartford.
> > >
> > > Every prison in New York state reported a loss of power and
> > > switched to backup generators, said James Flateau, a spokesman for
> > > the state Department of Corrections.
> > >
> > > In Albany, N.Y., several people were trapped in elevators in
> > > Empire State Plaza, but most had been freed by 5 p.m. People in
> > > New York City lined up 10
> > > deep or more at pay phones, with cellphone service disrupted in some
> > > areas.
> > >
> > > Mike Saltzman, a spokesman for New York Power Authority, a
> > > state-owned utility in White Plains, N.Y., said its two largest
> > > hydroelectric plants, including Niagara Falls and St.
> > > Lawrence-FDR, were operating. He said he did
> > > not know the status of 18 other smaller plants.
> > >
> > > "There is no evidence of any terrorism at this point," said
> > > Michael Sheehan, deputy commissioner for terrorism of New York
> > > City's Police Department. "We've talked to Washington and there
> > > are rumors, but none of them pans out."
> > >
> > > Top New York police officers gathered at the department's
> > > operations center downtown where the focus was on the
> > > ramifications of the blackout rather
> > > than its cause. "We're more concerned about getting the traffic lights
> > > running and making sure the city is okay than what caused it," a
police
> > > spokesman said at the center.
> > >
> > > Nuclear Reactors Shut Down
> > >
> > > Four nuclear power reactors -- two in New York and two in Ohio --
> > > reported they were shut down because of the loss of off-site
> > > power, according to the
> > > Nuclear Regulatory Commission in Bethesda, Md. They were the two
Indian
> > > Point reactors in New York state, and the Perry and Fermi nuclear
power
> > > plants in Ohio.
> > >
> > > The North American Electric Reliability Council, an industry group
> > > responsible for monitoring the integrity of the system, said the
> > > power outages were "widespread and appear to be centered around
> > > Lake Erie, although they are affecting the entire eastern
> > > interconnection."
> > >
> > > "We do not know the cause at present but will continue to evaluate
> > > the situation," said Ellen Vancko, speaking for the council.
> > >
> > > Planes Are Grounded
> > >
> > > The Federal Aviation Administration instituted airport ground
> > > stops at Cleveland, Kennedy, LaGuardia and Newark, N.J. That meant
> > > planes from other cities heading to those four airports could not
> > > take off. However, air traffic control facilities had backup
> > > power, and planes already in the air
> > > could land at those airports, said Laura Brown, speaking for the FAA.
> > >
> > > At the Homeland Security Department, spokesman Brian Roehrkasse
> > > said federal officials were still gathering information and had
> > > not determined a cause.
> > >
> > > The department "is working with state and local officials and the
> > > energy sector to determine the cause of the outage as well as what
> > > response measures may be needed to be taken," he said. He said
> > > everyone should "listen and heed the advice of the local
> > > authorities."
> > >
> > > Verizon Communications Inc., the largest local telephone company
> > > in the northeastern U.S., said its network is operating normally
> > > and has not been affected by a widespread power outage.
> > >
> > > Securities regulators were optimistic that U.S. markets would open
> > > as scheduled Friday. "There's no talk about not opening," said
> > > Annette Nazareth, Securities and Exchange Commission market
> > > regulation director. Power was in place through the close of
> > > trading Thursday and Mr. Nazareth
> > > said the Depository Trust Co. had cleared trades for the day before
> > > power
> > > failed.
> > >
> > > The blackouts rivaled those in the West on Aug. 11, 1996, when
> > > heat, sagging power lines and unusually high demand for
> > > electricity caused an outage that
> > > affected four million customers in nine states, one of the most severe
> > > outages in U.S. history.
> > >
> > > A blackout in New York City in 1977 left some nine million people
> > > without electricity for up to 25 hours.
> > >
> > > Updated August 14, 2003 6:08 p.m.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Belinda Wong-Swanson, Principal
> > > Innov8 LLC, 624 Agua Fria, Santa Fe, NM 87501 www.innov8llc.com
> > > email:
[hidden email]
> > > tel: 505-660-7948
> > > fax: 505-474-4659
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > > Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> > > Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
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> > > Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> > > Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> > >
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> >
> >
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> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> > Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> >
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> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
> Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
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Meets Fridays 9AM @ Jane's Cafe
Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
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