Re: WARNING: Political Argument in Progress

Posted by Russ Abbott on May 16, 2010; 2:29am
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/WARNING-Political-Argument-in-Progress-tp5060628p5060636.html

Let's be clear about which Russ you are talking to. This was Nick to Russ G.


-- Russ A

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Russ,

It is my deepest belief that if our country is to survived, people who
disagree need to learn to argue with each other.  You and I really disagree
on this one, so on my account, we are obligated to argue.

 On the other hand, I DON'T believe that others should unwillingly be a
party to such arguments, so I changed the thread.

We obviously agree that power corrupts and that absolute power corrupts
absolutely.  So, we are both made nervous when power starts to accumulate
in small numbers of hands  And I bet we believe, both, that having power
leads to the accumulation of more of it. .And, we both seem to agree that
dangerous, irreversible accumulations of power are occuring in our society,
right now?

OK, so far?  Where we seem to disagree is where the dangerous power is
accumulating in our society.  I think it is in large corporations; you
think it is in governments.  Still on board?

Why don't I stop there, and see if you agree with this characterization of
our disagreement.

Nick

Still ok?

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University ([hidden email])
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe]




> [Original Message]
> From: Russell Gonnering <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
CoffeeGroup <[hidden email]>
> Date: 5/15/2010 1:39:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What you can do.
>
> Nick-
>
> Why not have both Fox and the BBC? Or more to the point, why not Fox and
PBS?
>
> Fox is not like a government in the following ways: It can't tax me, it
doesn't redistribute my wealth,  it can't imprison me, it can't execute me
or otherwise control me and I can turn them off.  If they do not satisfy
their viewers and their shareholders, they go out of business.  Unless they
are "too big to fail", which is a whole other discussion.
>
> I have this innate dislike for government censorship, and a very strong
distrust of politicians.
>
> I like the fact that government is limited, and so did the framers of the
Constitution.  I can see no historical evidence of a political entity, that
when granted absolute power over the flow of information to society for an
unlimited period of time, used that power to increase or even merely insure
the liberty of its citizens.  Can you?  If ever there is a situation of
giving megaphones to people to yell "Fire" in the theater, it would be
that.
>
> To each his own, I guess.
>
> Russ #3
>
>
>
> Russell Gonnering, MD, MMM, FACS, CPHQ
> [hidden email]
> www.emergenthealth.net
>
>
> On May 15, 2010, at 1:45 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
>
> > Russ,
> >
> > The thing I have never understood is why libertarians do not see
> > corporations for what they are: HUGE governments.
> >
> > Is it really the case that you would rather get your news from Fox than
> > from the BBC.  It seems to me that the question about whether we are to
be
> > subject to government control is water over the dam.  The question is
only
> > WHICH government are we going to be controlled by.  I would prefer to be
> > controlled by the government with the most responsible governance
> > structure.  I am no socialist, but I will take the BBC over Fox ANY
TIME.
> >
> > Gotta Run,
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
> > Clark University ([hidden email])
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> > http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe]



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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org