Re: In the theater of consciousness
Posted by
Roger Critchlow-2 on
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/In-the-theater-of-consciousness-tp3875347p3884978.html
So, this Baars fellow who you're discussing, this is the Bernard J Baars whose home page at
http://vesicle.nsi.edu/users/baars/ links to copies of all the books and papers under discussion?
-- rec --
On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Stephen Thompson
<[hidden email]> wrote:
Nick:
Without intending to "set you off" can you explain a bit about your displeasure at
'cognitive scientists'? Are they too loose in their work; an academic mash-up with no
real direction; something else; or all of the above ?
Just interested to hear your story...
Thanks,
Steph T (lurker)
Nicholas Thompson wrote:
Jochen
I am taking the liberty of moving our conversation into consciousness (See
Jochen's note below). Perhaps the list can do a weekend seminar on it.
thanks for the reference. I have down loaded it, and now I must read it.
I confess I have done that snotty thing of looking in the references before
I read the article ... to discover that Baars does not reference either of
the pinacles of thinking concerning scientific metaphors, George Lakoff or
Mary Brenda Hesse. I fear he will not have found Holt, nor even that guy
who imagines consciousness as the chart table on large tanker trying to
come into San Diego Harbor. (and then tells us in detail about the
polynesians who conceived of navigation on the open water as a project of
moving stars and islands, out of sight over the horizon) (can anybody
remind me of who this was?)
There is an arrogance of working scientists who, when they reach a certain
stature in their fields, feel that they have earned the right to do
philosophy, even though they have read very little of it. Something that,
for instance, they would never attempt with quantum mechanics or
meteorology. So, I am braced to be pissed off by Baars. I am made VERY
cranky by "cognitive scientists."
Somebody will now box my ears, and rightly, too. russ? I suppose I should
stipulate right away that I an not much of a philosopher myself, but a
philosopher-groupie, and that I am, in the bargain, a terrible scholar. [sigh][sound of air leaking out of a good rant].
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University ([hidden email])
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
[Original Message]
From: Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Date: 10/24/2009 3:42:06 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] In the theater of consciousness
Since the core of his theory is just a metaphor, the easiest way to get access to it is maybe his paper
"Metaphors of consciousness and attention in the brain"
http://bci.ucsd.edu/~pineda/COGS273/Overheads/Baars.pdf
John Kennison said in June that one feature about metaphors is that we must tolerate inconsistencies. I am not sure how big the inconsistencies are here.
However, it is surprising how much conversation
is going on privately between the members
of the list. Like unconscious thoughts..
If you reply to one of those unconscious mails,
it is drawn in the spotlight of attention.
What appears on the list are the conscious thoughts of the group, the FRIAM mind, while
the private messages are "unconscious" ones.
If the FRIAM list discusses itself, it would be a form of self-awareness or consciousness for the FRIAM mind. I wonder if Baars' theory covers this case - actors on stage discussing the theater?
Bernard Baars has written two books about it which I plan to study in the next weeks,
"In the Theater of Consciousness: The Workspace of the Mind" (Oxford University Press, 1997)
and "A Cognitive Theory of Consciousness" (Cambridge University Press, 1988).
-J.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
To: "Jochen Fromm" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Owen Densmore" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 1:45 AM
Subject: FW: Re: [FRIAM] In the theater of consciousness
Owen has helpfully removed my excuse for not readiung Baars. As a man
of
mercy, and knowing of my limitations as a reader, could you help to a
passage among the following that woudl get me quickly to the heart of
his
theory?
Thanks so much,
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University ([hidden email])
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
http://www.friam.org