Posted by
Nick Thompson on
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/In-the-theater-of-consciousness-tp3875347p3881464.html
Jochen,
Oh, I was pretty sure that Dennett didnt LIKE the Cartesian Theatre idea;
but I did think (without much confisdence) that he had invnted the term.
Sounds like I need to read some Baars. Is there a way of getting at it
that doestn require large expenditures of money and effort?
If the idea is that my consciousness is just what my behavior illuminates
(spotlights), then this is not the cartesian theatre at all, but the New
Realism, a la Holt.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University (
[hidden email])
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> [Original Message]
> From: Jochen Fromm <
[hidden email]>
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
[hidden email]>
> Date: 10/23/2009 7:03:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] In the theater of consciousness
>
> There is a difference between Dennett and Baars,
> Dennett says the theater metaphor is not useful
> to understand consciousness. He argues in
> "consciousness explained" what consciousness
> is not: it is not happening in a Catesian theater
> where a single person, the self, sits before a
> large stage or screen and watches what happens.
> It is always easier to say what something
> is not (e.g. non-linear, non-equilibrium, etc.)
> than to say what it actually is.
>
> Baars says the theater metaphor is useful to
> understand consciousness. He argues that
> consciousness is like the bright spot cast
> by the spotlight on to the stage of theater.
> The other actors and those in the backstage
> or in the audience represent the unconscious
> elements. Dennett's theater is empty except
> the little self sitting there, Baars' theater
> is full of actors.
>
> I was asking about the latter version of
> the theater metaphor. Dennett writes about
> it "for those who want to join the race
> to model consciousness, this is the starting
> line" (on the Back Cover of Baars' earlier book
> "A Cognitive Theory of Consciousness"). Is it?
> Does anyone agree?
>
> -J.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <
[hidden email]>
> To: <
[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 6:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] In the theater of consciousness
>
>
> > The idea you describe here is familiar to me as the "cartesian
theatre",
> > which I think arises from Daniel Dennet, Consciousness Explained??? It
is
> > also represented, I think, in a book called the User Illusion, which I
> > have
> > never read. It's a very tempting view because it is deeply imbedded in
> > our
> > day-to-day conversations about behavior.
> >
> > It is called the Cartesian Theatre because of Descartes's "brain in
the
> > vat" argument that leads to the conclusion that all we can for sure is
the
> > content of our own minds. On that basis, we start to think of
experience
> > as something we sit and watch played out sort of screen on the inside
of
> > our skulls, watched perhaps by the cyclopean eye of the pineal. As
you
> > know, it is my view that this sort of cartesian skepticism leads
> > further:--
> > to the conclusion that we cant know anything for sure. On my account,
if
> > we cannot know about the world, we surely cannot know about our own
minds.
> > The argument is as follows: Any knowledge requires a
knowledge-gathering
> > mechanism that uses cues. If we doubt that there are more or less
> > accurate
> > mechanisms for gathering information about the world, why would we be
> > confident that there are mechanisms for gtathering information about
one's
> > own mind. This is how I arrive at my position, "O what the fuck, why
not
> > just be realists and get the silliness over at the beginning."
> >
>
>
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