Posted by
glen e. p. ropella-2 on
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Re-comm-was-Re-FW-Re-Emergence-Seminar-BritishEmergence-tp3654051p3696693.html
Thus spake russell standish circa 09-09-22 05:06 PM:
> I still don't follow why circular causality is required, although it
> is an interesting class of systems. So long as
> the two languages are lexically mismatched, that suffices, as there
> are behaviours (eg flocking) inexpressible in the reduced language.
Well, remember that this is all speculation on my part. I could easily
be wrong about all this. However, the reason I think circular causality
is necessary is because if the construction is built up from a single,
consistent language, then all one need do is show that the other
language is isomorphic to the first (or find a new language where that's
the case) and any apparent "complexity" is proven illusory. However, if
the system is constructed with mismatched languages, in the first place,
then it's no simple task to find a 3rd language that is isomorphic to
the composition of the languages from which the system is constructed.
I.e. for "strong" or "real" complexity, we need something that is
_constructed_ with mismatched languages, not merely constructed with a
single coherent one and operated on by another.
And the only way to construct a system with mismatched languages is to
embed one (different, mismatched) language inside another ... i.e. for
one part of the system to use the results of an (inaccurate) operator as
part of its mechanism.
All this boils down to is that circular systems are not reducible beyond
the elements of the circle. And if the circle is expressed in a single,
consistent language, then the circle can be formulated nicely and isn't
complex, which is why we need the language mismatch.
--
glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095,
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