Re: emergence

Posted by Victoria Hughes on
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/emergence-tp3586728p3599938.html

That can happen too.
That's the point, there are no necessary boundaries.
Although I am a bourbon woman, personally.


On Sep 7, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Victoria Hughes wrote:

> I am up for this one, Merle-
>
> Tory
>
>
> On Sep 7, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:
>
>> But we may have to have a useful conversation about emergence in  
>> order to talk about soul, consciousness, or spirit.
>>
>> Merle
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson wrote:
>>> Try this:  a property of an entity is emergent when it depends on  
>>> the arrangment or the order of presentation of the parts of the  
>>> entity.  (It's /properties/ that are emergent, not /entities/ ...  
>>> some properties of a pile of sand are emergent, some aggregate.)  
>>> Here, I believe, I am channeling Wimsatt.  The beauty of reading a  
>>> collection such as Bedau and The Other Guy is that you experience  
>>> the whip-lash of moving from point of view to point of view.    
>>> Good exercise for the neck.  By the way, Russ (was it?) was  
>>> a ...leetle... unfair to Bedau.  I dont think Bedau thinks it's a  
>>> mystery; i think he thinks others have thought  it a mystery.  But  
>>> it's been a few months since I read it.  Implementation:  Consider  
>>> the expression, "there is more than one way to skin a cat".    
>>> Equivalent to: "there are several programs you can use to  
>>> implement a cat skinning."   Consciousness:  the big source of  
>>> confusion in emergence discussions is the attempt to attach  
>>> emergence to such perennial mysteries as consciousness. (Actually,  
>>> I dont think consciousness is a mystery, but let that go.)  The  
>>> strength of a triangle is an emergent property of the arrangment  
>>> of its legs and their attachments.   There are lots of ways bang  
>>> together boards and still have a weak construction, which I  
>>> learned when I put together a grape arbor with no diagonal  
>>> members.  Worked fine until the grapes grew on it.  Emergent  
>>> properties are everywhere in the simplest of constructions.  We  
>>> dont need to talk about soul, or consciouness, or spirit to have a  
>>> useful conversation about emergence.
>>> Nick
>>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
>>> Clark University ([hidden email]  
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>)
>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 
>>> >
>>>
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>   *From:* Victoria Hughes <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>   *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>>>   <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>   *Sent:* 9/6/2009 10:32:59 AM
>>>   *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] emergence
>>>
>>>   Consciousness / self-awareness?
>>>   Is this thus acceptable as an emergent phenomenon?
>>>   If so, how does this permit, or not, the definition of 'the self'
>>>   as a unique identity?
>>>
>>>>   Emergence is what happens when components of the "emergent
>>>>   entity" act in such a way as to bring about the existence and
>>>>   persistence of that entity.
>>>>
>>>>   When "boids" follow their local flying rules, they create
>>>>   (implement) a flock. It's not mysterious. We know how it works.
>>>>
>>>>   That's all emergence is: coordinated or consistent actions among
>>>>   a number of elements that result in the formation and persistence
>>>>   of some aggregate entity or phenomenon.
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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>


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org