Re: emergence

Posted by Douglas Roberts-2 on Sep 07, 2009; 11:14pm
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/emergence-tp3586728p3599910.html

I think I'll have a Martini, while contemplating this opportunity.

--Doug

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Victoria Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am up for this one, Merle-

Tory

On Sep 7, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:

But we may have to have a useful conversation about emergence in order to talk about soul, consciousness, or spirit.

Merle




Nicholas Thompson wrote:

Try this:  a property of an entity is emergent when it depends on the arrangment or the order of presentation of the parts of the entity.  (It's /properties/ that are emergent, not /entities/ ... some properties of a pile of sand are emergent, some aggregate.)  Here, I believe, I am channeling Wimsatt.  The beauty of reading a collection such as Bedau and The Other Guy is that you experience the whip-lash of moving from point of view to point of view.   Good exercise for the neck.  By the way, Russ (was it?) was a ...leetle... unfair to Bedau.  I dont think Bedau thinks it's a mystery; i think he thinks others have thought  it a mystery.  But it's been a few months since I read it.  Implementation:  Consider the expression, "there is more than one way to skin a cat".   Equivalent to: "there are several programs you can use to implement a cat skinning."   Consciousness:  the big source of confusion in emergence discussions is the attempt to attach emergence to such perennial mysteries as consciousness. (Actually, I dont think consciousness is a mystery, but let that go.)  The strength of a triangle is an emergent property of the arrangment of its legs and their attachments.   There are lots of ways bang together boards and still have a weak construction, which I learned when I put together a grape arbor with no diagonal members.  Worked fine until the grapes grew on it.  Emergent properties are everywhere in the simplest of constructions.  We dont need to talk about soul, or consciouness, or spirit to have a useful conversation about emergence.
Nick
 Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University ([hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>)
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>

  ----- Original Message -----
  *From:* Victoria Hughes <mailto:[hidden email]>
  *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
  <mailto:[hidden email]>
  *Sent:* 9/6/2009 10:32:59 AM
  *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] emergence

  Consciousness / self-awareness?
  Is this thus acceptable as an emergent phenomenon?
  If so, how does this permit, or not, the definition of 'the self'
  as a unique identity?

  Emergence is what happens when components of the "emergent
  entity" act in such a way as to bring about the existence and
  persistence of that entity.

  When "boids" follow their local flying rules, they create
  (implement) a flock. It's not mysterious. We know how it works.

  That's all emergence is: coordinated or consistent actions among
  a number of elements that result in the formation and persistence
  of some aggregate entity or phenomenon.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

--
Doug Roberts
[hidden email]
[hidden email]
505-455-7333 - Office
505-670-8195 - Cell

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org