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Re: emergence

Posted by Victoria Hughes on Sep 07, 2009; 11:09pm
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/emergence-tp3586728p3599878.html

I am up for this one, Merle-

Tory


On Sep 7, 2009, at 12:02 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:

> But we may have to have a useful conversation about emergence in  
> order to talk about soul, consciousness, or spirit.
>
> Merle
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson wrote:
>> Try this:  a property of an entity is emergent when it depends on  
>> the arrangment or the order of presentation of the parts of the  
>> entity.  (It's /properties/ that are emergent, not /entities/ ...  
>> some properties of a pile of sand are emergent, some aggregate.)  
>> Here, I believe, I am channeling Wimsatt.  The beauty of reading a  
>> collection such as Bedau and The Other Guy is that you experience  
>> the whip-lash of moving from point of view to point of view.   Good  
>> exercise for the neck.  By the way, Russ (was it?) was  
>> a ...leetle... unfair to Bedau.  I dont think Bedau thinks it's a  
>> mystery; i think he thinks others have thought  it a mystery.  But  
>> it's been a few months since I read it.  Implementation:  Consider  
>> the expression, "there is more than one way to skin a cat".    
>> Equivalent to: "there are several programs you can use to implement  
>> a cat skinning."   Consciousness:  the big source of confusion in  
>> emergence discussions is the attempt to attach emergence to such  
>> perennial mysteries as consciousness. (Actually, I dont think  
>> consciousness is a mystery, but let that go.)  The strength of a  
>> triangle is an emergent property of the arrangment of its legs and  
>> their attachments.   There are lots of ways bang together boards  
>> and still have a weak construction, which I learned when I put  
>> together a grape arbor with no diagonal members.  Worked fine until  
>> the grapes grew on it.  Emergent properties are everywhere in the  
>> simplest of constructions.  We dont need to talk about soul, or  
>> consciouness, or spirit to have a useful conversation about  
>> emergence.
>> Nick
>>  Nicholas S. Thompson
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
>> Clark University ([hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>)
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 
>> >
>>
>>    ----- Original Message -----
>>    *From:* Victoria Hughes <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>    *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>>    <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>    *Sent:* 9/6/2009 10:32:59 AM
>>    *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] emergence
>>
>>    Consciousness / self-awareness?
>>    Is this thus acceptable as an emergent phenomenon?
>>    If so, how does this permit, or not, the definition of 'the self'
>>    as a unique identity?
>>
>>>    Emergence is what happens when components of the "emergent
>>>    entity" act in such a way as to bring about the existence and
>>>    persistence of that entity.
>>>
>>>    When "boids" follow their local flying rules, they create
>>>    (implement) a flock. It's not mysterious. We know how it works.
>>>
>>>    That's all emergence is: coordinated or consistent actions among
>>>    a number of elements that result in the formation and persistence
>>>    of some aggregate entity or phenomenon.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org