Re: emergence
Posted by
Robert Cordingley on
Sep 07, 2009; 1:57pm
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/emergence-tp3586728p3597535.html
Nick
IMHO, I thought 'to see', 'observations', 'arrangements' and 'order'
were also largely 'in the eye of the beholder'! If emergence is ever
to become a (part of) science, repeatable measurements (from verifiable
observations) leading to one or more calculated parameters is the only
way to bring 'emergence' in from the cold/limbo/twilight zone, where it
appears to be right now. Statistical and/or structural
pattern
recognition seem to be good places to start. (See also
descriptive
statistics) I don't know if this has yet been attempted/done but
hope to hear otherwise. Perhaps it's just too hard.
Robert C.
Nicholas Thompson wrote:
I respectfully but firmly disagree. To see emergence, one may
have to observe the phenomenon from a particular angle, emergence
itself is out there. Properties of aggregates often depend on the
arrangement or order of arrangement of their parts.
N
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
9/6/2009 5:57:14 PM
Subject:
Re: [FRIAM] emergence
After observing all the tos and fros, and listening
to many in person discussions on emergence and complexity, I've decided
(see No. 4), Emergence is in the eye of the beholder. This will
continue until someone declares a definition that can be widely adopted
by workers in the field. Look at the Reynolds Number
that is a dimensionless but useful engineering tool to determine the
type of fluid flow, whether it's laminar or turbulent and helps
determine how to calculate pipeline pressure drops and such. Or look
at Fractal Dimension,
that is a statistical quantity, and I believe is another dimensionless
quantity, in fact.
Is is possible that there is a measure of Complexity that can be used
in the same sort of way? As this measure of Complexity increases
Emergence happens (like turbulence) above a certain value? And it is
so because we say so.
Robert C.
Russ Abbott wrote:
<snipped>
4. Is emergence an objective feature of the world, or is it merely in
the eye of the beholder? ...
<snipped>
-- Russ
<snipped>
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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
http://www.friam.org