http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Emergence-and-explanation-tp3187993p3245193.html
> purely about relationships between components.
> To see this
clearly, imagine how you _measure_ the number
> 1) you _count_ them or 2) you estimate the number.
> ...
The relatedness you claim is introduced by the counting (measurement)
process. To my mind, the existence and significance of the
property (number of components in a system) does not require knowledge of
it's value. Are you saying it does?
--------------------------------------------------
From: "glen e. p.
ropella" <
[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009
5:43 PM
To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group"
<
[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Emergence and
explanation
Thus spake Rikus Combrinck circa 07/10/2009 01:00 AM:
>
1. The number of components in a Newtonian N-body system. In the
>
study of complex systems, the number of components is frequently a
>
critical system property. It is, however, entirely divorced from
the
> properties of the components or relationships among them.
I
disagree. The _number_ of components in any system is purely
about
relationships between components.
To see this clearly, imagine
how you _measure_ the number of components
in a system. I can think of
2 basic ways: 1) you _count_ them or 2) you
estimate the number.
If
you choose (1), then you have to choose 1 from the population.
(Note
that "population" is a relational term in itself.) Then you
have to
choose another one (without replacement, which is a
relational
operator). Now you have 1+1 = 2. "+" is a
relation. Then you have to
choose a 3rd, again without replacement and
add 2+1=3. Etc.
If you choose method (2), then you'll have to
choose some property like
volume or mass, decide how much of that respective
volume or mass is
taken up by any one component (or class of components) and
divide up the
volume or mass based on the ratio taken up by each (type of)
component.
Not only is this method fundamentally relational (how much
space or
mass is taken up by one component in relation to another); but
it's
definitely about the properties of each component as they
accumulate
into the systemic property of volume or mass.
No, the
number of components in a Newtonian N-body system is
_definitely_ all about
the relations and interactions between the
components. Hence, it is
emergent.
> 2. A weaker one: the mass of a Newtonian N-body
system. While it
> depends on component masses, it is independent of
interaction among
> components.
As above, the mass of the system is
an accumulation of the masses of the
components. In order to see that
it is an emergent characteristic,
consider the methods for measuring the
mass.
True, mass is _linear_ as is volume and many other
characteristics
(because of the way they're measured). But if nonlinear
== emergent,
then what's the point of the less well-defined term
"emergent"?
--
glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095,
http://agent-based-modeling.com
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