Posted by
Owen Densmore on
Jul 02, 2009; 3:46pm
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Re-Direct-conversation-tp3137870p3195835.html
Thank you Nick, good explanation. And Steve -- we actually started
down this road on the thermodynamic formulation of ABM .. Guerin-
Speak .. with some success.
Much more generally: There is a rift between the formal and
philosophic that I have a partial solution for. Both are VSI (Very
Short Introduction) books.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0192853619/ http://www.amazon.com/dp/0192854119/The first is the Mathematics VSI. It is written by Timothy Gowers and
really does get the reader into the mind of mathematics folks. Gowers
is a Fields Medalist -- the Nobel for math. And he is driven by a
Wittgenstein understanding of abstraction. Gowers' discussion of a
5th dimensional cube is a wonderful example. He constantly comes back
to the type of abstraction he prefers: very clean and focused on the
properties under discussion.
The second is the Wittgenstein VSI, to bind Gowers' math with his
inspiration, Wittgenstein. I've not finished this one (I've got a
digital version and have just sent for the paper one) but there is
hope we might actually find a connection between the more
philosophical discussions and a formalism for them.
I'd be very interested in this endeavor.
-- Owen
On Jul 2, 2009, at 9:14 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> Owen,
>
> (1)Yes, I do assume that most people delete these messages and
> press on,
> as I delete most (but not all) messages about ... say ... the the
> latest
> 4.0.17a.alpha version of Groovy on Rails.
>
> Different stroke for different folks.
>
> (2)Lord we tried on the summaries. Unfortunately we couldnt agree
> sufficiently to produce a synopsis.
>
> (3) I am aware that you believe the following:
>
>> Most philosophical discussions of this ilk simply end in semantic
>> deadly embrace. They are eventually resolved, if ever, at great cost
>> of word length. The Kolmodorov complexity is quite low:
>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity>> in that much compression could be attained.
>
> And, accordingly, our inabiliity to produce such a summary
> distressed me
> deeply. This I take to be not as a failiure of philosphy but a
> failure on
> my (our) part to do it right, but I fear you will draw another
> conclusion.
> .
>
> all the best,
>
> nick
On Jul 2, 2009, at 9:27 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
> Owen -
>> Most philosophical discussions of this ilk simply end in semantic
>> deadly embrace. They are eventually resolved, if ever, at great
>> cost of word length.
> I agree with the sentiment, but if we were to caste this into a set-
> theoretic (or algebraic) framework, I think we would find some
> interesting features. I'm not sure, however, that such discussions
> can truly be placed into a formalism. I would find it interesting
> (entertaining, instructive) if you could elaborate how you think
> such a mapping would be done. I believe these discussions to
> (naturally, inherently) transcend formal logic.
>> The Kolmodorov complexity is quite low:
>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity>> in that much compression could be attained.
> I think someone did try to formulate an algorithmic description of
> the discussion:
>
> • Read everything written in the Western Philosophical Tradition
> • Focus on Kant
> • Focus on the New Realists
> • Think real hard about all of the above
> • Lay in the grass and intend to get up without doing so (my
> contribution)
> • Discuss your interpretation of 3, 2, 1
> • Go to 4
> But methinks this is tantamount to getting several large carpets to
> cover up the many small ones already hiding large piles of dust and
> litter swept under them.
>
> Apologies to Nick, Russ, Eric, et al. for (perhaps) being too flip
> here. I respect the earnestness and the information content that
> is in the discussion, despite the difficulty in finding any
> convergence.
>
> Carry On!
>
> - Steve
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