Re: Nick and dishonest behavior

Posted by Carl Tollander on
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Re-Nick-and-dishonest-behavior-tp3117309p3140472.html

An odd time of year to be talking about Valentine's Day....

Nicholas Thompson wrote:

> the following passage caught me eye:
>  
> Half the never-ending hurt in this world seems to come from our
> thinking we know what other people's intentions are from their actions...
>  
> Talk to me a bit about what an intention is to you, what an action is
> to you, and how they differ.
>  
> Nick
>  
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
> Clark University ([hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>)
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 
> <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>  
>  
>  
>  
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Steve Smith <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     *Sent:* 6/21/2009 5:51:13 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Nick and dishonest behavior
>
>     I am way too animistic in my instincts to go for most of this.
>
>     Eric said:
>
>         /Nick's ethical stance would be based on treating things that
>         act in certain ways as equal to all other things that act in
>         certain ways, and it wouldn't get much more prescriptive than
>         that. The acts he would be interested in would be very
>         sophisticated actions, or combination of actions - such as
>         "contributing to the conversation". This may seem strange, but
>         again, it is really, really, really, not that different from a
>         stance that treats all things that "experience in a certain
>         way" as equal.  
>         /
>
>
>     Yes, I abhor the killing of people (but can think of circumstances
>     when I would endorse or practice it) and by extension abhor (or at
>     least get really queasy at) the killing of things that look
>     anything like people.  Apes and Monkeys are obvious candidates for
>     the not-kill.   Ditto for things that know how to mimic humans in
>     any way... or have been selected for these traits (think most/all
>     pets, many domesticated animals, etc.).   And add in the things
>     that tweak my  parent feeling (all creatures exhibiting neotony,
>     big eyes, large head/body ratios, etc.).   Then add in the
>     creatures who may not overtly (or recognizeably) remind me of
>     humans (think Dolphins and other Cetaeceans... little gray
>     creatures from UFO's, etc) that I intellectually (if not
>     intuitively) ascribe intelligence and emotions.  
>
>     But I can feel the same way about cherished possessions or even
>     coveted possessions of others.  Who hasn't gone to the dump and
>     wanted to pull that "perfectly good armchair" out of the  pile of
>     trash?   I am particularly a sucker for machinery, electronic or
>     otherwise.   Just *try* to throw a "perfectly good"
>     printer/computer/bicycle/chainsaw away in my presence.   I have a
>     boatload (technically a parking-lot-full) of cars that I fell in
>     love with and had to rescue... most of them 20+ years old... and
>     once you rescue them, you can never abandon them, and you can't
>     even foster them out... after all, who is going to love them as
>     much as you?   And yes, they all drive... though I'm not so sure
>     about the old tech in my shed (computers, printers, etc.) but I
>     suspect they do... why not?
>
>     OK... I'm sure this is totally off-topic... excepting that I claim
>     that we *project* so much onto inanimate (or barely animate or
>     animate but barely/hardly human) objects that surely we do the
>     same with people?  I don't trust people who claim they can
>     determine my (or anyones) intentions by our actions... it is too
>     fraught with the risk of projection.   Half the never-ending hurt
>     in this world seems to come from our thinking we know what other
>     people's intentions are from their actions... and the other half
>     seems to come from the resulting feedback loop of revenge.
>
>     - Steve
>
>     PS... I think it is "OK" to kill Nick, but there are many, many
>     reasons I do not.  Not the least of which is that I've become
>     quite fond of him.   So don't anyone else try killing Nick to make
>     the point, I would take it personally, project onto you my own
>     ideas of your motivations and seek revenge based on that
>     projection.  (OK... I know... I'm being disingenuous here...)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org