Re: Direct conversation

Posted by Nick Thompson on
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Re-Direct-conversation-tp3137870p3138570.html

Russ, and Glen, and Steve, n all

 

Ironically, I am with Russ on this one!  I believe both in the possibility and the benefits of clarity. 

I expected that when Russ and I were done, we would be able to agree on an articulation of our positions, where they are similar, where different, etc.  In fact, one of the skills I most revere is the ability to state another person's position to that person's satisfaction.  And, in fact, at one point, I thought I had achieved such an articulation, only to have Russ tell me I had got it wrong.   My guess is that Russ has his feet deeply in Kant, and I have neither boots nor courage high enough to go in there after him.  My son, who is a philosopher, has as good as looked me in the eye and said, "You aint man enough to read Kant!"

 

I dont think Russ and I are done.  I think we are ... resting.  One of the lurkers made the suggestion that we had bitten off too large a project, and that we needed, if we were going to seek clarity, to try to be clear about a smaller piece of the puzzle. 

 

In thinking about these matters, I can use all the help I can get, and I am still looking for help on how and when and in which context, computers gather information about themselves (or parts of themselves). 

 

Nick

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,

Clark University ([hidden email])

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: [hidden email]

To: [hidden email]

Sent: 6/22/2009 1:35:48 PM

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Direct conversation

Glen,

That seems so defeatist. When one can't be clear, there may not be anything one can do about it at the time. But it seems to me that the positive arc of science, technology, philosophy, politics, culture, etc. (and I think it has been overall a positive arc) has been driven by the imperative to be as clear as possible as much as possible. Feynman famously said "Science is what we have learned about how not to fool ourselves about the way the world is. " Are you really objecting to that as a goal?  (It certainly won't work as a software development strategy!) I would have thought that this list especially would value clarity.

-- Russ

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:54 AM, glen e. p. ropella <[hidden email]> wrote:

A mandated method to be clear as possible as much as possible would be
just as effective and efficient as a mandate to be as vague as possible
as much as possible.  

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org