Posted by
Russ Abbott on
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Re-Subjective-experience-tp3084143.html
When "experience" is used as a verb, we don't add the word "subjective." We add it when "experience" is used as a noun to refer to first person experience. The broader word "experience" isn't that precise.
But more to the point I'm still confused what you mean bv "
I don't deny that I, or the cat, or even the robot, experience (when all three obey the rules of "experiencing"). What rules are you talking about?
Furthermore, I don't agree that robots have the same sort of first person experience that we and cats do. Is that really your position, that robots "experience" the world the same way you do? If so, doesn't it follow that we should be kind to robots in the same way we should be kind to people and cats, that robots deserve humane treatment, etc.?
-- Russ Abbott
_____________________________________________
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles
Cell phone: 310-621-3805
o Check out my blog at
http://bluecatblog.wordpress.com/
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nicholas Thompson
<[hidden email]> wrote:
Russ,
I don't think I am bickering or splitting hairs; but then, people who are, never do.
To put yourself in my frame of mind on these issues, start by saying what you can say about what others "see". I see that my cat sees the mouse in the corner of the room.
Anything I can say of the cat, I can say of myself.; anything I cannot say of the cat, I cannot say of myself.... well, except for the fur part.
If all experience is subjective, then we probably don't need the extra word, do we? I don't deny that I, or the cat, or even the robot, experience (when all three obey the rules of "experiencing"). I just don't see what is gained by adding the word "subjective" except a very confusing and inconsistent metaphysics.
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 6/15/2009 7:38:20 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The ghost in the machine (was 'quick question')
Nick,
In one of the previous messages, you said, "I don't know about you, but I experience a world." Experiencing a world is a mark of subjective experience. Robots don't experience; they have sensors that measure things and report those measures, from which the robot may draw conclusions. There is a difference. I don't understand how you can deny that difference.
After all, what do you mean by "experience the world" other than subjective experience? Is this just a matter of terminological bickering? If you are willing to say that you experience the world, then by my understanding of "experience" you have subjective experience.
-- Russ Abbott
_____________________________________________
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles
Cell phone: 310-621-3805
o Check out my blog at http://bluecatblog.wordpress.com/
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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
http://www.friam.org