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Re: A leetle thermodynamics!

Posted by Robert Howard-2-3 on Apr 12, 2009; 2:43am
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/A-leetle-thermodynamics-tp2618412p2622749.html

Microwave ovens, gas stoves, coal stoves, fireplaces, and solar cookers; all
have a price-time tradeoff. The solar cooker is slow and cheap. Most people
would rather have an option and the freedom not choose it, than no option at
all. For a $50,000 prize, I wish I invented it. -- Rob


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 4:04 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A leetle thermodynamics!

As usual, Wikipedia has some info:
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cooker#Using_a_solar_cooker

Looks like Peter is right about the time it takes.  Pretty slow  
process, but that may not be as big an issue for the users compared to  
gathering fuel etc.

     -- Owen


On Apr 10, 2009, at 8:40 PM, Victoria Hughes wrote:

> Hey, that is a pretty cool bunch of information.
> Egyptian Ice, eh -  a new delicacy, only for heirophants.
> How did they know to do that? Arabs?
> Sounds Tom Robbins-y. Love it.
> Tory
>
> On Apr 10, 2009, at 3:25 PM, Peter Lissaman wrote:
>
>> Solar cookers can break your heart, but not the laws of  
>> thermodynamics. Consider this elementary fact, my dear Dr. Watson.  
>> The insolation on earth near the equator is about 800 W/m2, it is  
>> less at the end of the day, and much less after sunset.  For an  
>> aperture of 0.1 m2, you getting about 80 W black body, ignoring  
>> losses.  Concentrators have nuttin to do with it! This amounts to  
>> about 270 BTU/hr from which you could boil a bit less than 2 pints  
>> of water in an hour, assuming no losses.
>> BTW, you can, with care and ceremony,  make ice in the Egyptian  
>> deserts every cloudless night, by exploiting radiation to the stars  
>> from shallow water trays, and careful control of nucleation,  
>> convection and vaporization. In fact, the temple priests used to do  
>> it on the flat roofs of the temples to impress the unwashed on the  
>> bounty of whatever God they were scamming that week.   Much hoopla,  
>> involving sanctified water brought up from the basement (where it  
>> had got pretty cool, mixed with yesterday's ice), throwing holy  
>> dust on the surface (to provide nucleation particles) and wafting  
>> the surface at just the right time and rate with magic ostrich  
>> featherwands to actually control heat transfer due to convection  
>> and vapors. It's just thermodynamics, Nefertiti!  And if sometimes  
>> the ice didn't form, it was because someone's mother-in-law was a  
>> witch!  It's amazing what them religious guys know!!
>> I usedta teach elementary courses in thermo in CA and the  
>> conversion constants are from memory and only roughly correct.
>>

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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org