Re: Strogatz and Ratti video conversation
Posted by
Peter-2-2 on
Nov 16, 2008; 6:25pm
URL: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Strogatz-and-Ratti-video-conversation-tp1503065p1506543.html
Exactly the point that stuck out to me is two experts ( Top Rated )
from different disciplines saying " This is scary we really
don't
know and should find out " instead of heck lets just
build it and see if the humans live ( We don't even do that to
amphibians or reptile pets ) this from a senior member of a profession
who's egos are bigger than Everest and about as unreachable.
The big kicker here will always be "You cannot measure or model
therefore manage Giant Non linear Complex Systems with simple linear
technology not mater how pretty the GUI "
Phil mentions Jane Jacobs and her work which is full of visually
identified rules ( that work and do not ) with feedback loops and I
will add Chris Alexander
http://www.patternlanguage.com/ ( we are using
both in our parametric model designs of education facilities tied to
educational excellence )
Jochen's point about Berlin not being the greatest place to live in can
be I think covered under " What exactly do you call excitement that
every psychopath wants to know" and as Jane Jacobs and even Ratti
points out designs go wrong but in many cases its just left up to the
people in the FUBAR to suffer baby suffer.
Again from the silliness and partially scary aspect --- model your
city or town on Discworld and see how close you can get, thats either
good news or bad depending on your Guinness quota or in Jochens case
Berliner Weisse
( : ( : pete
Phil Henshaw wrote:
Peter Baston
The
idea offered that why cities become such thriving places for
humans is because of the intensity of noise in the connections is
somewhat
fantastic. That’s really what Storgatz & Ratti are
proposing, as traditional science has always proposed to explain what
is
inexplicable to it’s method. To their credit, the one thing
they seem to accurately agree on is that science doesn’t have a clue
how
that would work, and that we do indeed observe daily that it somehow
really
does.
They
should read Jane Jacobs on the Nature of Economies or the
Economy of Cities, who brilliantly describes the actual creative
mechanism of
the environment. The productive “wide open door”
to recognizing it, that most everyone opts not to walk through, is that
it’s
the diversity options, not the diversity of instructions
in a
creative organism like a city that do it. That sort of messes
up the deterministic model, of course, but points to a gap in our rules
where
things could both exit and enter.
From:
[hidden email]
[[hidden email]] On Behalf Of peter
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:27 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Strogatz and Ratti video conversation
Nice one
indeed , great catch Steve
But do we all realize the implications with the words - Feedback
Loops -
Giant Non Linear systems ( being measured with linear systems ) - Network
theory not translating into Euclidean geometry.
I found the piece on natural laws of cities totally enlightening but
fortunately for all of us SaFeans we live in Discworld nirvana where no
natural
laws apply as Owen can testify from his phenomenal research under
Professor
Pratchett
( : ( : pete
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
http://www.friam.org