Friam

my data is bigger

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Roger Critchlow-2

my data is bigger

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/10/05/how-does-science-really-work

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Roger Frye-4

Re: my data is bigger

The article ends with a damning argument about FRIAM:

On one level, it’s ironic to find a philosopher—a professional talker—arguing that science was born when philosophical talk was exiled to the pub. On another, it makes sense that a philosopher would be attuned to the power of how we talk and argue.

Along the way, cites a war as the reason people started to believe in scientific experiment over idealistic theories and belief. I doubt that it is as simple as this:

Why did the iron rule emerge when it did? Strevens takes us back to the Thirty Years’ War, which concluded with the Peace of Westphalia, in 1648. The war weakened religious loyalties and strengthened national ones. Afterward, he writes, what mattered most “was that you were English or French”; whether you were Anglican or Catholic became “your private concern.” Two regimes arose: in the spiritual realm, the will of God held sway, while in the civic one the decrees of the state were paramount. As Isaac Newton wrote, “The laws of God & the laws of man are to be kept distinct.” These new, “nonoverlapping spheres of obligation,” Strevens argues, were what made it possible to imagine the iron rule. The rule simply proposed the creation of a third sphere: in addition to God and state, there would now be science.

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 6:53 AM Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/10/05/how-does-science-really-work

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gepr

Re: my data is bigger

Ha! I don't know why that's *damning*. I think it should be clear that FriAM isn't scientific, but peri-scientific, similar to a pub. It's a little less pub-like in that we sporadically link to data and argue about data ... which is more difficult in a pub, even with smartphones everywhere. Now had you included the sentence: "Etiquette is what has created the modern world.", THEN THAT would be damning. 8^D

On 9/28/20 7:50 AM, Roger Frye wrote:

> The article ends with a damning argument about FRIAM:
>
> On one level, it’s ironic to find a philosopher—a professional talker—arguing that science was born when philosophical talk was exiled to the pub. On another, it makes sense that a philosopher would be attuned to the power of how we talk and argue.
> [...]
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 6:53 AM Roger Critchlow <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/10/05/how-does-science-really-work

uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: my data is bigger

I don't even see it as pub talk. But I don't really go to pubs, pandemic or not, so I wouldn't know.
Philosophy is motivational to me: Why the hell should I grab a cup of coffee and give a damn about problem X? What bloody difference does it make?

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 8:10 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] my data is bigger

Ha! I don't know why that's *damning*. I think it should be clear that FriAM isn't scientific, but peri-scientific, similar to a pub. It's a little less pub-like in that we sporadically link to data and argue about data ... which is more difficult in a pub, even with smartphones everywhere. Now had you included the sentence: "Etiquette is what has created the modern world.", THEN THAT would be damning. 8^D

On 9/28/20 7:50 AM, Roger Frye wrote:

> The article ends with a damning argument about FRIAM:
>
> On one level, it’s ironic to find a philosopher—a professional
> talker—arguing that science was born when philosophical talk was
> exiled to the pub. On another, it makes sense that a philosopher would
> be attuned to the power of how we talk and argue. [...]
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 6:53 AM Roger Critchlow <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/10/05/how-does-science-really-
> work

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- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
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gepr

Re: my data is bigger

Why should *you*? Perhaps no reason. Why should *I*? Because I'm not creative or motivated enough to launch into some subjects/issues without being pressured into it by other people. Put more in terms of our society, though, hearing what the people in my geographic community care (passionately) about helps me integrate into that community. I can't really do that with scientific publications. For example, an upcoming project will require some data wrangling that I may not be capable of doing. But I met a guy at the local pub who had to do a lot of such work for his PhD and, as a newly minted adj. professor, is in the process of applying for some fed funds to do more of it. He's agreed to help me in my work, too. Sure, I could have found a person online, perhaps someone 5 time zones away. But having him here will be very helpful. Having met him at the pub makes a concrete difference.

On 9/28/20 8:36 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

> I don't even see it as pub talk. But I don't really go to pubs, pandemic or not, so I wouldn't know.
> Philosophy is motivational to me: Why the hell should I grab a cup of coffee and give a damn about problem X? What bloody difference does it make?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 8:10 AM
> To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] my data is bigger
>
> Ha! I don't know why that's *damning*. I think it should be clear that FriAM isn't scientific, but peri-scientific, similar to a pub. It's a little less pub-like in that we sporadically link to data and argue about data ... which is more difficult in a pub, even with smartphones everywhere. Now had you included the sentence: "Etiquette is what has created the modern world.", THEN THAT would be damning. 8^D
>
> On 9/28/20 7:50 AM, Roger Frye wrote:
>> The article ends with a damning argument about FRIAM:
>>
>> On one level, it’s ironic to find a philosopher—a professional
>> talker—arguing that science was born when philosophical talk was
>> exiled to the pub. On another, it makes sense that a philosopher would
>> be attuned to the power of how we talk and argue. [...]
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 6:53 AM Roger Critchlow <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/10/05/how-does-science-really-
>> work

uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: my data is bigger

For example, it often seems like a mathematician's idea of utility is that one other mathematician 5 time zones away might use an idea. That's if they are feeling very affable. On the other extreme is a random (that frequents the same pub) who might find an idea relevant to their relationships, household, etc. Some reflection is useful to understand what is desired from communication. Honestly, a lot of very technical material is already written down and is useful in that form.

----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 8:53 AM
To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] my data is bigger

Why should *you*? Perhaps no reason. Why should *I*? Because I'm not creative or motivated enough to launch into some subjects/issues without being pressured into it by other people. Put more in terms of our society, though, hearing what the people in my geographic community care (passionately) about helps me integrate into that community. I can't really do that with scientific publications. For example, an upcoming project will require some data wrangling that I may not be capable of doing. But I met a guy at the local pub who had to do a lot of such work for his PhD and, as a newly minted adj. professor, is in the process of applying for some fed funds to do more of it. He's agreed to help me in my work, too. Sure, I could have found a person online, perhaps someone 5 time zones away. But having him here will be very helpful. Having met him at the pub makes a concrete difference.

On 9/28/20 8:36 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

> I don't even see it as pub talk. But I don't really go to pubs, pandemic or not, so I wouldn't know.
> Philosophy is motivational to me: Why the hell should I grab a cup of coffee and give a damn about problem X? What bloody difference does it make?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 8:10 AM
> To: FriAM <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] my data is bigger
>
> Ha! I don't know why that's *damning*. I think it should be clear that
> FriAM isn't scientific, but peri-scientific, similar to a pub. It's a
> little less pub-like in that we sporadically link to data and argue
> about data ... which is more difficult in a pub, even with smartphones
> everywhere. Now had you included the sentence: "Etiquette is what has
> created the modern world.", THEN THAT would be damning. 8^D
>
> On 9/28/20 7:50 AM, Roger Frye wrote:
>> The article ends with a damning argument about FRIAM:
>>
>> On one level, it’s ironic to find a philosopher—a professional
>> talker—arguing that science was born when philosophical talk was
>> exiled to the pub. On another, it makes sense that a philosopher
>> would be attuned to the power of how we talk and argue. [...]
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 6:53 AM Roger Critchlow <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/10/05/how-does-science-really
>> -
>> work