Friam

multitasking

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Prof David West

multitasking

I am putting this in another thread so it will be easier to ignore.

In another thread, glen's post included the sentence — "At last week's salon, we broached the (false) concept of multitasking in humans, ..."

This was a trigger. a big one, hence the hyberbolic rant that follows.

Humans not only can, but do, multitask all the time and any "research" that "proves" otherwise is BS.

If, and only if, you define cognition in such a limited way that you can apply the metaphor/model (e.g. context switching) of a serial computer is it possible to demonstrate an inability to multi-task.

The fact that you can think, write, talk, breathe, ride a bicycle, and admire a sunset simultaneously — and similar examples — must be defined away as somehow not multi-tasking.

One of the more fascinating altered-state experiences I have enjoyed many times is watching — quite literally a visualization albeit an internal one — a plethora of generative mental processes occuring concurrently, along with "sifting," "winnowing," and "sorting" processes. Using a technique akin to directed lucid dreaming, I posed a mental problem — explaining to another member of FRIAM a specific theory of complexity and aesthetics — before taking the stimulant.

The resulting experience was akin to watching fonts (pun intentional) of words and phrases spew forth onto a "page" where they circled and danced around each other seeking "connections" until coalescing into cogent sentences which I could then type into the computer. Each "font" was a generative process focusing on one aspect of a context of relevant context and experience, without losing sight of the whole; all of which were operating concurrently. A plethora of cognitive

multi-tasking.

Far more mundane, in a controlled psychological experiment in a lab ad Macalester, I was able to put a simple jigsaw puzzle together while maintaining an alpha wave generating "Zen mediation."

davew

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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: multitasking

I think it is understood that multitasking is slow thinking, not the stuff in the metaphorical FPGA. Some people have weird and esoteric things in their FPGAs.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021 2:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [FRIAM] multitasking

I am putting this in another thread so it will be easier to ignore.

In another thread, glen's post included the sentence — "At last week's salon, we broached the (false) concept of multitasking in humans, ..."

This was a trigger. a big one, hence the hyberbolic rant that follows.

Humans not only can, but do, multitask all the time and any "research" that "proves" otherwise is BS.

The fact that you can think, write, talk, breathe, ride a bicycle, and admire a sunset simultaneously — and similar examples — must be defined away as somehow not multi-tasking.

multi-tasking.

Far more mundane, in a controlled psychological experiment in a lab ad Macalester, I was able to put a simple jigsaw puzzle together while maintaining an alpha wave generating "Zen mediation."

davew

gepr

Re: multitasking

This post was updated on .

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

Prof David West

Re: multitasking

glen is good at triggers — this one more of an observational one.

The mind/brain seems to require massive multi-tasking / parallel processing to function at all. I base this statement on long ago experiments at Macalester's psych department with a sensory deprivation tank - a real one, not the ones they use in spas for relaxation. The mind/brain "panics" absent massive multi-channel sensory inputs ‚ the five senses plus other channels. North Korea used this kind of sensory deprivation as torture. The experiments we did would never get past a research board today because they were very dangerous and used human subjects including me.

Sensory deprivation with LSD was a whole different thing. I could not do more than five-minutes in true sensory deprivation tank but spent many an hour tripping in one.

davew

On Tue, Jun 1, 2021, at 4:01 PM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote:

> Yes. When someone in a casual circle talks about multi-tasking, it's
> conscious-focus-of-attention tasks they seem to mean. One might even
> argue *that* conception of multi-tasking is a self-contradiction. You
> can't both focus and not focus. It begs us to ask what all these words
> actually mean ... which is why there's always *that guy* who has to
> jump in and man-splain everything to everyone.
>
> When I used to run, I preferred rough terrain precisely because I can
> multi-task in Dave's sense. In fact, providing my body with the more
> complex task of running on and in between obstacles actually freed up
> my mind to think more clearly. Running on pavement never actually put
> me in the "flow". And running, say, around the track at the local high
> school was just pure torture.
>
> But, all said and done, I'm happy for the *triggering*. It stimulates
> the vagus nerve! >8^D
>
> On 6/1/21 2:04 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > I think it is understood that multitasking is slow thinking, not the stuff in the metaphorical FPGA. Some people have weird and esoteric things in their FPGAs.
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Friam <[hidden email]> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 1, 2021 2:00 PM
> > *To:* [hidden email]
> > *Subject:* [FRIAM] multitasking
> >
> >
> >
> > I am putting this in another thread so it will be easier to ignore.
> >
> >
> >
> > In another thread, glen's post included the sentence —/"At last week's salon, we broached the (false) concept of multitasking in humans, ..."/
> >
> >
> >
> > This was a trigger. a big one, hence the hyberbolic rant that follows.
> >
> >
> >
> > Humans not only can, but do, multitask all the time and any "research" that "proves" otherwise is BS.
> >
> >
> >
> > If, *and only if*, you define cognition in such a limited way that you can apply the metaphor/model (e.g. context switching) of a serial computer is it possible to demonstrate an inability to multi-task.
> >
> >
> >
> > The fact that you can think, write, talk, breathe, ride a bicycle, and admire a sunset simultaneously — and similar examples — must be defined away as somehow not multi-tasking.
> >
> >
> >
> > One of the more fascinating altered-state experiences I have enjoyed many times is watching — quite literally a visualization albeit an internal one — a plethora of generative mental processes occuring concurrently, along with "sifting," "winnowing," and "sorting" processes. Using a technique akin to directed lucid dreaming, I posed a mental problem — explaining to another member of FRIAM a specific theory of complexity and aesthetics — before taking the stimulant.
> >
> >
> >
> > The resulting experience was akin to watching fonts (pun intentional) of words and phrases spew forth onto a "page" where they circled and danced around each other seeking "connections" until coalescing into cogent sentences which I could then type into the computer. Each "font" was a generative process focusing on one aspect of a context of relevant context and experience, without losing sight of the whole; all of which were operating concurrently. A plethora of cognitive
> >
> > multi-tasking.
> >
> >
> >
> > Far more mundane, in a controlled psychological experiment in a lab ad Macalester, I was able to put a simple jigsaw puzzle together while maintaining an alpha wave generating "Zen mediation."
> >
> >
> >
> > davew
>
>
> --
> ☤>$ uǝlƃ
>
> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
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> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: multitasking

In reply to this post by gepr

I think the claim that people can't multitask is simply that there is distinction between short and long term memory.
A computer can take an interrupt and retain and later restore its register file exactly. This can happen thousands of times a second or years after a task suspension.
If it happens too frequently, progress will slow, but it only with very, very small probability will it fail (e.g. power fluctuation or cosmic ray strike). But at least I need to take a quite a bit of time to restore the narrative to resume a detailed task. Usually I avoid doing so until I know I will be free of distractions. Things that I can easily restore are practiced or easy or meatspace things.

Incidentally, for running it depends if it is intervals or not. Below anaerobic threshold, I can almost forget I am running. On a treadmill, I can watch TV but I don't watch anything with a complex plot or with lengthy dialogue because I miss words or space out for periods. Above it, I pay attention to the pain. :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021 3:01 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] multitasking

Yes. When someone in a casual circle talks about multi-tasking, it's conscious-focus-of-attention tasks they seem to mean. One might even argue *that* conception of multi-tasking is a self-contradiction. You can't both focus and not focus. It begs us to ask what all these words actually mean ... which is why there's always *that guy* who has to jump in and man-splain everything to everyone.

When I used to run, I preferred rough terrain precisely because I can multi-task in Dave's sense. In fact, providing my body with the more complex task of running on and in between obstacles actually freed up my mind to think more clearly. Running on pavement never actually put me in the "flow". And running, say, around the track at the local high school was just pure torture.

But, all said and done, I'm happy for the *triggering*. It stimulates the vagus nerve! >8^D

On 6/1/21 2:04 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

> I think it is understood that multitasking is slow thinking, not the
> stuff in the metaphorical FPGA. Some people have weird and esoteric things in their FPGAs.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam <[hidden email]> *On Behalf Of *Prof David
> West
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 1, 2021 2:00 PM
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] multitasking
>
>
>
> I am putting this in another thread so it will be easier to ignore.
>
>
>
> In another thread, glen's post included the sentence —/"At last week's
> salon, we broached the (false) concept of multitasking in humans,
> ..."/
>
>
>
> This was a trigger. a big one, hence the hyberbolic rant that follows.
>
>
>
> Humans not only can, but do, multitask all the time and any "research" that "proves" otherwise is BS.
>
>
>
> If, *and only if*, you define cognition in such a limited way that you can apply the metaphor/model (e.g. context switching) of a serial computer is it possible to demonstrate an inability to multi-task.
>
>
>
> The fact that you can think, write, talk, breathe, ride a bicycle, and admire a sunset simultaneously — and similar examples — must be defined away as somehow not multi-tasking.
>
>
>
> One of the more fascinating altered-state experiences I have enjoyed many times is watching — quite literally a visualization albeit an internal one — a plethora of generative mental processes occuring concurrently, along with "sifting," "winnowing," and "sorting" processes. Using a technique akin to directed lucid dreaming, I posed a mental problem — explaining to another member of FRIAM a specific theory of complexity and aesthetics — before taking the stimulant.
>
>
>
> The resulting experience was akin to watching fonts (pun intentional)
> of words and phrases spew forth onto a "page" where they circled and
> danced around each other seeking "connections" until coalescing into
> cogent sentences which I could then type into the computer. Each
> "font" was a generative process focusing on one aspect of a context of
> relevant context and experience, without losing sight of the whole;
> all of which were operating concurrently. A plethora of cognitive
>
> multi-tasking.
>
>
>
> Far more mundane, in a controlled psychological experiment in a lab ad Macalester, I was able to put a simple jigsaw puzzle together while maintaining an alpha wave generating "Zen mediation."
>
>
>
> davew

--
☤>$ uǝlƃ

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gepr

Re: multitasking

This post was updated on .

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: multitasking

Glen writes:

"I suppose we could argue that objectives and tasks are different things. But my counter would be that they're something like [near]duals, or there's something like a Curry-Howard correspondence between them ... objectives are the initial and target state and tasks are the paths through the state space that connect the initial and target state, perhaps even some kind of path integral. An objective with no (possible) path toward that end is not a well-formed objective."

Yeah, not clear where the intuition for infinite sampling (path integral) comes from in connecting the two. Although sometimes it seems like I DO try everything.
Given your remark about men possibly having a smaller number of objectives than women, why not turn over every damn rock? :-)

"Unless the contexts for any 2 well-defined tasks can be unified, the context switch is pure overhead. And, usually, the contexts can be divided into parts, some of which are common to multiple tasks and some of which need to be switched out."

Even with no stateful change, there's the disruption of the "instruction cache" by jumping around a lot. I would think there would be some analogous neural locality to different tasks too, and longer spreading signals to jump between different tasks.

"Narratives are inherently serial ... diachronic, more suited to the CPU, where context switching is fundamental, at least compared to more parallelizable things like POSETs. It wouldn't be surprising if people who believed humans were fundamentally narrative tended to disbelieve in human multi-tasking. It seems contradictory or paradoxical for someone who believes people are fundamentally story-tellers and, yet, also believe people are parallelist."

I think part of it is that the parallelist ways are harder to unpack and explain. So when asked how it is one makes a judgement (say about a social situation), it is hard to start from the start. That means bringing to bear the diachronic tools to rationalize a story. I wonder how many good writers and artists are really diachronic. I suspect they cannot be.

"And *that* you can run on a treadmill at all says something about your architecture. I absolutely despise treadmills ... they violate everything I know (and hate/love) about running. What kind of monster are you?"

Controlled exertion. What's not to love? If I could do it hanging on a hook in a spacesuit, I would. Snap off my head and do some work while the Neurallink driver pushes the body through spinal interfaces. :-)
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Steve Smith

Re: multitasking

Marcus responds to Glen's response to DaveW :
> "And *that* you can run on a treadmill at all says something about your architecture. I absolutely despise treadmills ... they violate everything I know (and hate/love) about running. What kind of monster are you?"
>
> Controlled exertion. What's not to love? If I could do it hanging on a hook in a spacesuit, I would. Snap off my head and do some work while the Neurallink driver pushes the body through spinal interfaces. :-)

Now you are singing my song into the good ear! In a few years that
might be all that is left of me (one good ear and a Neurallink interface
to whatever is left functioning of my body!)

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Frank Wimberly-2

Re: multitasking

An exercise: my friends in high school band used to do this. Strike an object (e.g. table) at a regular interval with your right hand; strike with your left hand every other beat. Now tap your right foot every fourth beat and your left foot every eighth beat.

I think some of them could do this. I could never get to the left foot.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Jun 2, 2021, 11:30 AM Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Marcus responds to Glen's response to DaveW :
> "And *that* you can run on a treadmill at all says something about your architecture. I absolutely despise treadmills ... they violate everything I know (and hate/love) about running. What kind of monster are you?"
>
> Controlled exertion. What's not to love? If I could do it hanging on a hook in a spacesuit, I would. Snap off my head and do some work while the Neurallink driver pushes the body through spinal interfaces. :-)

Now you are singing my song into the good ear! In a few years that
might be all that is left of me (one good ear and a Neurallink interface
to whatever is left functioning of my body!)

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
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thompnickson2

Re: multitasking

Try two against three!

Nick Thompson

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2021 2:36 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] multitasking

I think some of them could do this. I could never get to the left foot.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Jun 2, 2021, 11:30 AM Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Marcus responds to Glen's response to DaveW :
> "And *that* you can run on a treadmill at all says something about your architecture. I absolutely despise treadmills ... they violate everything I know (and hate/love) about running. What kind of monster are you?"
>
> Controlled exertion. What's not to love? If I could do it hanging on a hook in a spacesuit, I would. Snap off my head and do some work while the Neurallink driver pushes the body through spinal interfaces. :-)

Now you are singing my song into the good ear! In a few years that
might be all that is left of me (one good ear and a Neurallink interface
to whatever is left functioning of my body!)

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
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