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links from today's discussions

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Carl Tollander

links from today's discussions

These came up today during discussions at St. Johns.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/39306
and
http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2009/06/shrinking-betelgeuse.html

C.

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Douglas Roberts-2

Re: links from today's discussions

Whew!

Smolen makes Nick look positively taciturn, by comparison.

I took away these points of view from his article:

he does not believe in a "timeless" universe,
he does not believe that an ensemble of universes are created by a random process, and
he believes that universes are created by "bounces" deep inside black holes, which replace their singularities, where time had been hypothesized to end.

Pretty cool stuff for a Saturday morning. Thanks for posting, Carl.

--Doug

On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Carl Tollander <[hidden email]> wrote:

These came up today during discussions at St. Johns.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/39306
and
http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2009/06/shrinking-betelgeuse.html

C.

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Steve Smith

Re: links from today's discussions

Doug/Carl -

Thanks for some meaty material to shift me from worrying about whether "I" exist or not and whether it is relevant as to whether "Robots can feel Nausea" or not.   That one is still an interesting one for me, but too mind bending.   At least the subject of Quantum Cosmology and Fecund Universes are easy to wrap my head around without going recursive ;)

Seriously. I haven't checked in on Smolin's work for a number of years and I am glad to see/hear that his ideas are evolving... When I first encountered his "Froth of Black Holes" (Fecund Universe) theories in the early 90's I was taken in by them. They were a wonderful tie-in between the problem/opportunity presented by the Copenhagen (Many Worlds) interpretation of Quantum Theory and the Astrophysical roots of Cosmology (Black Holes are physical, semi-observable phenomena in THIS Universe) .

I've not seen/heard/read anything since to undermine this, but it is now "old stuff" and therefore not as charming to me.   There was a brief moment in the late 90's I think when Hameroff/Penrose were trying to pick a fight with Smolin/Kauffman over Quantum Consciousness/Complexity-based Consciousness but I think the latter simply ignored the former until the fight lost it's non-momentum.

The terms "fundamental law" and "effective law" are new to me... I may have missed it in his early work, or it may be newly coined with his collaboration with Philospher Unger?   The concepts are easy enough and I find them compelling enough... maybe something more fundamental and profound will hit me now that I have them in my head.

Susskind's "related" String Theory Landscape is also new (but not surpising, yet compelling to me).   I am also happy to have had the term (Popper Falsifiable) introduced into the discussion, as I have puzzled over this distinction (things which one can predict theoretically but cannot falsify)..

I am also drawn to the implicit revisiting of the meaning of "Time's Arrow" when studying/considering "configuration space".   Unfortunately consideration of "Time's Arrow" leads me right back into the deadfall trap Nick set for us (at least me!) when suggesting that my own self-consciousness (and therefore my sense of time?) is it's own illusion.

Whew!

Whew is right! And all this on a wonderfully cool/rainy Saturday morning only days from Solstice. Amazing.

- Sieve

Smolen makes Nick look positively taciturn, by comparison.

I took away these points of view from his article:

he does not believe in a "timeless" universe,

he does not believe that an ensemble of universes are created by a random process, and

he believes that universes are created by "bounces" deep inside black holes, which replace their singularities, where time had been hypothesized to end.

Pretty cool stuff for a Saturday morning. Thanks for posting, Carl.

--Doug

On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Carl Tollander <[hidden email]> wrote:

These came up today during discussions at St. Johns.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/39306
and
http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2009/06/shrinking-betelgeuse.html

C.
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Steve Smith

Re: links from today's discussions

In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2

Douglas Roberts wrote:

Whew!

And for anyone with the stamina (and intestinal fortitude?) to read beyond the Smolin article and into the commentary that follows, I think we have more evidence for parallel universes. The commentary reads quite familiarly to our own here on FRIAM-the-list! Lots of good insights interlaced with crabby but mostly gentlemanly backbiting and accusations!

- Steve

Smolen makes Nick look positively taciturn, by comparison.

I took away these points of view from his article:

he does not believe in a "timeless" universe,

he does not believe that an ensemble of universes are created by a random process, and

he believes that universes are created by "bounces" deep inside black holes, which replace their singularities, where time had been hypothesized to end.

Pretty cool stuff for a Saturday morning. Thanks for posting, Carl.

--Doug

On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Carl Tollander <[hidden email]> wrote:

These came up today during discussions at St. Johns.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/39306
and
http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2009/06/shrinking-betelgeuse.html

C.
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org