iPhone on T-Mobile ?
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Our AT&T Contract is about to run out and I'm fed up with their service
(mostly voice). I was once a T-mobile customer and found their service better even back in the day... Anyone have experience with hacking the iPhone and using it with T-mobile in this area? I hear rumors of a Verizon deal with iPhone, but I thought they were not GSM? Any intel on that? I can't tell what the correct "Plan" with T-mobile would be. They refer to SideKick(tm) and BlackBerry(tm) plans. A no-contract or prepaid plan would be the best way to check the service out before giving over on AT&T and maybe time to wait for an Apple/Verizon announcement? ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: iPhone on T-Mobile ?
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Thus spake Steve Smith circa 01/17/2010 11:01 AM:
> Anyone have experience with hacking the iPhone and using it with > T-mobile in this area? Not in that area, obviously, but one of my colleagues uses a jailbroken iPhone on t-mobile up here and he seems fine with it. But why not just Do The Right Thing and get a Google phone? [grin] I'm using the G1 on T-Mobile and it's the best experience with a phone or PDA I've ever had. Why stick with the Evil Empire's "artistic" little brother? -- glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://agent-based-modeling.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
Its quite easy to hack an iPhone for tmobile. Check this site:
http://www.iclarified.com/tutorials/iphone/index.php .. under Unlock. Pwnage Tool is the most popular. I use it on my 2G iPhone. I use a standard digital plan, but its ancient and been grandfathered at least twice. Verizon is CDMA not GSM. I think prepaid plans do not include data services, just voice. That hopefully may have changed. -- Owen On Jan 17, 2010, at 12:01 PM, Steve Smith wrote: > Our AT&T Contract is about to run out and I'm fed up with their > service (mostly voice). > > I was once a T-mobile customer and found their service better even > back in the day... > Anyone have experience with hacking the iPhone and using it with T- > mobile in this area? > > I hear rumors of a Verizon deal with iPhone, but I thought they were > not GSM? Any intel on that? > > I can't tell what the correct "Plan" with T-mobile would be. They > refer to SideKick(tm) and BlackBerry(tm) plans. > > A no-contract or prepaid plan would be the best way to check the > service out before giving over on AT&T and maybe time to wait for an > Apple/Verizon announcement? > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
The rumor mill sez that there will be a Verizon iPhone by the end of
this year. However, it will have been built for Verizon's network and will be slightly smaller (at least that's what the spy photos show.) I plan on switching to an Android phone on Verizon when my AT&T contract ends in August. Verizon's 3G does seem slower but I am beyond weary of AT&T's crap coverage. Birch -- "Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. " - Buckminster Fuller **** Use of advanced messaging technology does not imply **** ***** an endorsement of western industrial civilization ***** On Jan 17, 2010, at 12:01 PM, Steve Smith wrote: > Our AT&T Contract is about to run out and I'm fed up with their > service (mostly voice). > > I was once a T-mobile customer and found their service better even > back in the day... > Anyone have experience with hacking the iPhone and using it with T- > mobile in this area? > > I hear rumors of a Verizon deal with iPhone, but I thought they were > not GSM? Any intel on that? > > I can't tell what the correct "Plan" with T-mobile would be. They > refer to SideKick(tm) and BlackBerry(tm) plans. > > A no-contract or prepaid plan would be the best way to check the > service out before giving over on AT&T and maybe time to wait for an > Apple/Verizon announcement? > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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Thanks for the feedback.
ATT cell-tower handoffs: My big beef with ATT is that I get dropped at every cell-tower handoff I encounter. In particular, at Jacona, at the top of Santa Fe hill, and then somewhere near San Felipe (which is fine since San Felipe Dip drops me 90% of the time anyway). I'm not completely sure I can blame this on ATT, perhaps the iPhone GSM Radio/Antenna is lame enough that ATT just can't keep the faith through these transitions. Maybe Owen has some experience on how well his iPhone handles tower handoffs? Google Android: I know Guerin has an Android... I will talk to him about his experience. Right now, getting the Nexus One is either a $600 buy or a 2 year commitment with T-mobile. I can't imagine switching my wife (a 30 year apple veteran) to a new platform. It is convenient to use a "family plan"... my ATT plan is about $120 for both of us with more minutes than we ever use and unlimited data. Looks like T-mobile has a $59.99 single plan with 500 minutes and unlimited data. Maybe a wash for me. Evil Empires: As for Glen's Heirarchy of Evil Empires, I have to agree that Steve Jobs is in the same hierarchy as Bill Gates, but I'm not sure the Google Boys won't be top-dog in that hierarchy "real soon now". Google is acting a lot like both Apple and Sun did back in their early days... doing lots of innovative projects... but we all know where Sun and Apple ended up (sorry Owen, but you probably know more of the inside dirt on these transitions than any of us). Does anyone remember the GoogleZon mocumentary conspiracy-spoof video that came out maybe 5 years ago? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPIC_2014 T-mobile: I can't quite remember why I got fed up with T-mobile 5 years ago, but I am a little leery about going into another contract until I've got a better feel for what I'd be getting from them. Anyone (even non-iPhone) customers in the Santa Fe area who can endorse (or trash) them? > The rumor mill sez that there will be a Verizon iPhone by the end of > this year. However, it will have been built for Verizon's network and > will be slightly smaller (at least that's what the spy photos show.) > I plan on switching to an Android phone on Verizon when my AT&T > contract ends in August. Verizon's 3G does seem slower but I am > beyond weary of AT&T's crap coverage. I'm not interested in a new iPhone specific to CDMA at this point, so unless Verizon had a secret plan to add GSM services to their CDMA systems, I don't think I can depend on them. I'd probably buy a Nexus 1 for T-mobile before a new iPhone (mainly cuz I like the one I have, excepting ATT's "crap coverage/service"). - Steve ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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On Jan 17, 2010, at 3:39 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback. > > <snip> > T-mobile: I can't quite remember why I got fed up with T-mobile 5 > years ago, but I am a little leery about going into another contract > until I've got a better feel for what I'd be getting from them. > Anyone (even non-iPhone) customers in the Santa Fe area who can > endorse (or trash) them? I've had great service with them for > 10 years. When I started traveling to europe quite a bit, they helped a lot, both here (explaining that I needed both an unlocked handset and international roaming), and in europe (explaining on their 611 world- wide service number how to change to the euro frequency for Dede's phone). They also gave me an unlock code before they generally do .. I think they unlock their subsidized phones at 11 months into the 2 year contract, they did mine much earlier for a trip that needed it. They also give you a new deal on a phone after 9 months, I think it is. They give you a new subscriber price, altho extend the contract for two years. This sounds odd to want, but for example, I can get a new cheap phone to lend to family or take to europe (we generally have one phone on a local pre-paid SIM and one on the home SIM and use international roaming.) It also lets me decide on a GPhone if I want one and they have a good price. Local expertise is important. The guys at the tmobile store at Rodeo and Cerillos .. next to Blue Corn .. beer & phones, great combo! .. are *very* expert, and quite helpful. I compare this to a 14-day trial with ATT when the iPhone first came out. Exactly the opposite experience. Local folks not smart enough to answer questions. No unlock for europe, and clueless about european use. Poor reception where I hang out. European roaming 50% more expensive. I returned the iPhone for the 10% restock fee. That was back when you could go to the Apple Store in Abq and buy it w/o ATT contract. Don't know how to get the iPhone now w/o ATT. No provider is really great, but tmobile has been way ahead of whoever is second. All this said, the GPhone direction may make a lot of this moot. You can buy your phone from Google (at a price) and independently choose your provider. -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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Any iPhone can be jailbroken so that it can use services other than ATT, but a jailbroken iPhone will not be able to load new apps from Apple (altho some nerds have also figured out how to do this as well.)
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]> Sent: Sun, Jan 17, 2010 5:12 pm Subject: Re: [FRIAM] iPhone on T-Mobile ?
On Jan 17, 2010, at 3:39 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback. > > <snip> > T-mobile: I can't quite remember why I got fed up with T-mobile 5 > years ago, but I am a little leery about going into another contract > until I've got a better feel for what I'd be getting from them. > Anyone (even non-iPhone) customers in the Santa Fe area who can > endorse (or trash) them? I've had great service with them for > 10 years. When I started traveling to europe quite a bit, they helped a lot, both here (explaining that I needed both an unlocked handset and international roaming), and in europe (explaining on their 611 world-wide service number how to change to the euro frequency for Dede's phone). They also gave me an unlock code before they generally do .. I think they unlock their subsidized phones at 11 months into the 2 year contract, they did mine much earlier for a trip that needed it. They also give you a new deal on a phone after 9 months, I think it is. They give you a new subscriber price, altho extend the contract for two years. This sounds odd to want, but for example, I can get a new cheap phone to lend to family or take to europe (we generally have one phone on a local pre-paid SIM and one on the home SIM and use international roaming.) It also lets me decide on a GPhone if I want one and they have a good price. Local expertise is important. The guys at the tmobile store at Rodeo and Cerillos .. next to Blue Corn .. beer & phones, great combo! .. are *very* expert, and quite helpful. I compare this to a 14-day trial with ATT when the iPhone first came out. Exactly the opposite experience. Local folks not smart enough to answer questions. No unlock for europe, and clueless about european use. Poor reception where I hang out. European roaming 50% more expensive. I returned the iPhone for the 10% restock fee. That was back when you could go to the Apple Store in Abq and buy it w/o ATT contract. Don't know how to get the iPhone now w/o ATT. No provider is really great, but tmobile has been way ahead of whoever is second. All this said, the GPhone direction may make a lot of this moot. You can buy your phone from Google (at a price) and independently choose your provider. -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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T-Mobile is on a roll. They converted their existing 3G network to HSPA 7.5Mbps service on January 5. They reduced the prices on their smart phones last Thursday. They're promising to upgrade their 3G network to HSPA+ 21Mbps service by mid-year. And I picked up a 3G signal in Santa Fe last week. It was probably just a test signal, but promising.
-- rec -- On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 5:51 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote: Any iPhone can be jailbroken so that it can use services other than ATT, but a jailbroken iPhone will not be able to load new apps from Apple (altho some nerds have also figured out how to do this as well.) ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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If prices come down to ~$50/month for unlimited data + phone service I might consider jumping back in. As it is, having POCPS (Plain Old Cell Phone Service) is actually kind of ... peaceful.
--Doug
On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 6:56 PM, Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:
T-Mobile is on a roll. They converted their existing 3G network to HSPA 7.5Mbps service on January 5. They reduced the prices on their smart phones last Thursday. They're promising to upgrade their 3G network to HSPA+ 21Mbps service by mid-year. And I picked up a 3G signal in Santa Fe last week. It was probably just a test signal, but promising. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Paul Paryski
On Jan 17, 2010, at 5:51 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Any iPhone can be jailbroken so that it can use services other than > ATT, but a jailbroken iPhone will not be able to load new apps from > Apple (altho some nerds have also figured out how to do this as well.) > Paul I haven't heard of the app problem, and indeed have installed new apps and upgraded existing apps w/in the month, using iTunes, which seems to see the unlocked (Pwned) iPhone just as any other iPhone. We have to be clear about two levels of "unlocked": unlocked means it can go on all networks, jailbroken means it can run unsigned programs/ applications. So basically jailbroken phones can be accessed via terminal emulators etc like any other OS. This is done before unlocking, which makes the phone usable on any radio-compatible network, in this case GSM networks. My experience is limited to jailbroken/unlocked phones via Pwnage Tool, YMMV. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jailbreak_(iPhone_OS) -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
On Jan 17, 2010, at 7:02 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
> If prices come down to ~$50/month for unlimited data + phone service > I might consider jumping back in. As it is, having POCPS (Plain Old > Cell Phone Service) is actually kind of ... peaceful. Peaceful? Parrots? :) Cost is *definitely* an issue. Checking your bill is shocking when you see around 15% is various state, local, federal fees. I'm paying $57.15: - $49.98 (Phone/Text: $29.99, Unlimited Data: $19.99) - $7.17 Fees and Services! .. so 14% of my cell bill is my government at work. I'm curious: what do other Friamers using a data plan pay? One reason my current service was cheaper than ATT (by around $15!) was that TMobile had a more options for phone/text, and data was cheaper, so I could get a good match (I don't use the phone all that much). -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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Well, discounting the fact that whenever the phone rings several of the parrots shout "HELLO!" after each ring until I can answer it...
And then the Macaw invariably says, "Hi! How are ya?" in a voice that closely resembles that of Foghorn Cleghorn.
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In reply to this post by Owen Densmore
I know I've come to the party late, but I was fascinated by Russ Abbott's essay in Complexity, 2006. CT has so much to give to the health care debate, and so few people interested in exploring it. Even ardent "complexionists" (?) sometimes deny health care as a CAS. Value in health care is an emergent concept. Attempts at imposed order, without recognition of emergent order and starting point, will push the system into chaos (ala David Snowden's "Cynefin Framework"). Russ Gonnering ("Russ #3" ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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Dear Russ #3
Emerence is an all-night party. Hard to be late to. I, however, am lost in Mathematical Thinking at the moment, and so will cede this inquiry to others. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University ([hidden email]) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe] > [Original Message] > From: Russell Gonnering <[hidden email]> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]> > Date: 1/18/2010 4:24:27 PM > Subject: [FRIAM] Emergence > > > I know I've come to the party late, but I was fascinated by Russ Abbott's essay in Complexity, 2006. CT has so much to give to the health care debate, and so few people interested in exploring it. Even ardent "complexionists" (?) sometimes deny health care as a CAS. Value in health care is an emergent concept. Attempts at imposed order, without recognition of emergent order and starting point, will push the system into chaos (ala David Snowden's "Cynefin Framework"). > > Russ Gonnering ("Russ #3" > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Russell Gonnering
Hi Russell,
A group of us here in Santa Fe have a strong interest in applications of complexity to health care systems. We've worked on a few small exploratory projects looking at the mental health systems in Florida and California as well as health delivery for NHS in the UK. We are starting with the easier bits of data visualization of caseflow data based on billing data and then incorporating agent-based models. While only research-phase at this point, we would be very interested to understand how we can approach health care and other social systems like criminal justice as self-organizing systems structuring in non- equilibrium contexts. -Stephen --- -. . ..-. .. ... .... - .-- --- ..-. .. ... .... [hidden email] (m) 505.577.5828 (o) 505.995.0206 redfish.com _ sfcomplex.org _ simtable.com _ ambientpixel.com On Jan 18, 2010, at 4:23 PM, Russell Gonnering wrote: > > I know I've come to the party late, but I was fascinated by Russ > Abbott's essay in Complexity, 2006. CT has so much to give to the > health care debate, and so few people interested in exploring it. > Even ardent "complexionists" (?) sometimes deny health care as a > CAS. Value in health care is an emergent concept. Attempts at > imposed order, without recognition of emergent order and starting > point, will push the system into chaos (ala David Snowden's "Cynefin > Framework"). > > Russ Gonnering ("Russ #3" > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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And once you add in issues of outcomes, you automatically get into areas of practice, i.e. actual human bodies, which seems to have obviously emergent properties. It was surprising to me to find the extent to which just basic traditional statistical techniques have not made it into health care practice until quite recently. Is it a stretch to imagine that part of the reluctance of doctors to embrace the kinds of techniques used in other fields could be in part due to an inherent (if unstated and poorly realized) conviction that these systems have emergent properties? A fascinating article on evidence-based stuff below. It makes me wonder if there must first be a good understanding of the data driven stuff, or if we will quickly find ourselves pushed into a fragile corner as I think russell is suggesting. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/magazine/08Healthcare-t.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=evidence-based%20medicine&st=cse Not coincidently, Gary An has talked a lot about evidence-based approaches, within the context of broader complexity issues. Health care issues came up repeatedly at the most recent swarmfest.. The obesity epidemic itself could in some sense be thought of as an emrgent phenomenon, depending on what your definition of emerge is. :) On Jan 18, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Stephen Guerin wrote: > Hi Russell, > > A group of us here in Santa Fe have a strong interest in applications of complexity to health care systems. We've worked on a few small exploratory projects looking at the mental health systems in Florida and California as well as health delivery for NHS in the UK. We are starting with the easier bits of data visualization of caseflow data based on billing data and then incorporating agent-based models. While only research-phase at this point, we would be very interested to understand how we can approach health care and other social systems like criminal justice as self-organizing systems structuring in non-equilibrium contexts. > > -Stephen > --- -. . ..-. .. ... .... - .-- --- ..-. .. ... .... > [hidden email] > (m) 505.577.5828 (o) 505.995.0206 > redfish.com _ sfcomplex.org _ simtable.com _ ambientpixel.com > > > > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 4:23 PM, Russell Gonnering wrote: > >> >> I know I've come to the party late, but I was fascinated by Russ Abbott's essay in Complexity, 2006. CT has so much to give to the health care debate, and so few people interested in exploring it. Even ardent "complexionists" (?) sometimes deny health care as a CAS. Value in health care is an emergent concept. Attempts at imposed order, without recognition of emergent order and starting point, will push the system into chaos (ala David Snowden's "Cynefin Framework"). >> >> Russ Gonnering ("Russ #3" >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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On Jan 19, 2010, at 7:15 PM, Miles Parker wrote: > > > It was surprising to me to find the extent to which just basic > traditional statistical techniques have not made it into health care > practice until quite recently. Is it a stretch to imagine that part > of the reluctance of doctors to embrace the kinds of techniques used > in other fields could be in part due to an inherent (if unstated and > poorly realized) conviction that these systems have emergent > properties? Maybe they don't think numbers are their friends. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 6:13 PM, Pamela McCorduck <[hidden email]> wrote:
That just doesn't add up.
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I'd love to discuss this topic in more detail with anyone who is interested. It is currently a topic of my guest blog on www.cognitive-edge.com
Since Flexner in 1910, we have followed a "Scientific Management" approach to medicine. Truth is, we had to, as there was so much quackery involved in medicine and medical education at that time. We used a reductionist methodology to solve the complicated areas of medicine and healthcare. There was quite a bit. However, the "wicked problems", to use complexity theory jargon, remained. Our mistake was attempting to use the same reductionist principles in dealing with problems of finance, access and lifestyle choices. It's not so much that numbers are not our friends, its that numbers do not supply the answers. "Evidence based medicine" is an extension of the reductionist methodology. It works great for complicated problems in medicine. It is useless for complex problems, and an attempt at employing it only makes the complex problems worse. Is the cost/access/quality conundrum better or worse now than 15 years ago? I would say it is WORSE because we have treated the problem as complicated, attempted to impose order in an emergently-ordered system and failed to recognize inflection points for change. As Porter and Teisberg have so eloquently stated in "Redefining Health Care: Creating Value-Based Competition on Results", our well-meaning tinkering has exacerbated the problem and pushed us to the brink of chaos. If things progress along the same trajectory, we will be off the cliff shortly. There is an extensive body of academic thought on this subject. Google "Paul Plsek", "Sholum Glouberman" "Mark Quirk" and "Trisha Greenhalgh" for peer-reviewed articles. Medicine is a combination of metacognition and intuition. Reductionist thinking fails both. The proof, of course, is in the results. www.plexusinstitute.org describes the ONLY studies that have shown a reduction in MRSA, the scourge of the modern hospital. It has not been reduced through process, but through "positive deviance". The answer, in my humble opinion, is not an either/or approach to process and starting point--like Avedis Donabedian, I believe both are important. Evidence-based medicine is needed in SOME areas, but in others, it will lead to an intellectual tyranny and analysis paralysis. The key is knowing where, and when, to make the shift. The exclusive application of population-based studies to individual patient care is only satisfactory to the newly-minted physician, and will never be satisfactory to the patient. I myself was in the situation of having had an anaphylactic reaction to a blood transfusion, only to have the blood bank pathologist tell me it should not have happened, and he wanted to repeat the process. I told him to take a flying leap, especially since pre-treating me with steroids (outside the "evidence-based" protocol) solved the problem. Population studies alone would be viable if every patient had the same starting point. We have not advanced enough to identify all the characteristics of those starting points. "Outcome" is an emergent characteristic, and is almost impossible to exactly duplicate. It can be approximated, but the degree to which it is approximated is an intersection of that metacognition and intuition. Both are "capabilities", not skills, that can be learned but cannot be taught. If health care was easy, why would we have such a mess on our hands? The truth is we need people like you, people who understand Complex Adaptive Systems, to become involved in the debate and demand that those in the position to make decisions wake up and listen to us. My "zwei Groeschen" Russ #3 On Jan 19, 2010, at 7:41 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
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In reply to this post by Stephen Guerin
Stephen-
I'm all ears. Russ#3 .-. . -.. ..-. .. ... .... -... .-.. ..- . ..-. .. ... .... On Jan 18, 2010, at 10:02 PM, Stephen Guerin wrote:
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