exploiting the uncanny valley...
Locked
 
|
I wonder how much lead time went into making this series of fakes wandering the uncanny valley between shallow and deep fake? This class of "magic" will be for the current children growing up
what the elders here experienced with the classic production of
Wizard of Oz when it shifted abruptly from BW to Technicolor as
Dorothy emerged from her Tornado-House in Oz. Or perhaps the
well executed insertion of Forrest Gump into various bits of
historical footage from the 60's (auspiciously his speech at the
DC Mall during the Vietnam Protests). Or perhaps the Toy Story
experience as a feature 3D animated movie. Or maybe the
integration of live and 2D/3D animation in Roger Rabbit or Howard the
Duck. All *exploiting* the uncanny valley whilst exploring it.
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
|
I can't help but wonder if this is related to sentiments like Justine's rejection of "natural" interfaces and conceptions of [ab|mis]use? My first bad reaction to machine/software was when I tried to play one of the Dark Souls games <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Souls> for the first time. There are some instructions in the form of a tutorial area, but nothing like the way games used to be ... like with a whole instruction manual on how to play. Maybe if the interface is *natural enough*, then it's likable. But if it's just a tad less than natural, then it makes you nauseous ... like how VR affects some people ... or like a psychopath who hasn't quite learned how to mimic normies' emotional affect.
On 1/21/21 9:23 AM, Steve Smith wrote: > I wonder how much lead time went into making this series of fakes wandering the uncanny valley between shallow and deep fake? > > Na Na Na Na, Goodbye - Kimmel <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZqu8ojifhU> > > This class of "magic" will be for the current children growing up what the elders here experienced with the classic production of Wizard of Oz when it shifted abruptly from BW to Technicolor as Dorothy emerged from her Tornado-House in Oz. Or perhaps the well executed insertion of Forrest Gump into various bits of historical footage from the 60's (auspiciously his speech at the DC Mall during the Vietnam Protests). Or perhaps the Toy Story experience as a feature 3D animated movie. Or maybe the integration of live and 2D/3D animation in Roger Rabbit or Howard the Duck <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mz3oytpugs>. > > All *exploiting* the uncanny valley whilst exploring it. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
|
Re: exploiting the uncanny valley...
|
In reply to this post by Steve Smith
From a naive glance, there appears a misleading duality, that of approaching the valley from one side or the other. For instance, the use of puppets to bring the non-human closer to the human: Jim Henson's work, the dancing figures in Kimmel's piece, the neural net fake exemplified by "Nixon's moon landing", neural net fever dreams of photorealistic models that never existed, or the now all-to-common place notion of an embedded avatar as in "Snow Crash", "All Tomorrow's Parties", "The Matrix" ...
From the other side come humans moving closer to the non-human or even simply a different human: plastic surgeries and botox'd lips, Thailand's cross-dressing prostitutes, internet catfishing, Victor-Victoria, "Boy's don't cry", butoh dance, (acting in general?). What seems strange to me is that in any puppet-puppeteer case it is not always clear that it is one bringing the other closer to the valley. It doesn't even appear to be directly a function of *being human* as in the case of this slime mould driven robot face. Here a non-human puppeteers a non-human face, the combination of which drives an observer toward the uncanny valley. Other times, it isn't about misrepresentation but rather identity tracing or a transformation of representation. There is the holding fixed of Dorothy as she moves from black-and-white to Technicolor, the holding fixed of Mary Poppins as she enters an animated-context, or the transformation of Milo to "animated Milo" as he passes through the phantom tollbooth. There are also those themes that appear in some religions and sci-fi where humans themselves are vessels available to "ride" as puppets: Ghost in the Shell, Altered Carbon, or in the case of loa. An interesting, though tangential, case is that of stop motion animation. Here, it isn't really puppetry nor strictly animation. Like the former, there is something of an artifact in the world. Something that is there to be manipulated. Like the latter, these manipulations are enacted by something outside of time, part of a time outside of time, in-between the frames. Perhaps the most disconcerting aspect of such a frontier isn't being able to tell the difference between a fake or not, but not caring about the sources of information. With deep fakes come a kind of modularity, one where *voice* is treated like a backend to be swapped out. The *voice of Nixon* is lost among many or any. Here, China has already taken the plunge. We can all see that these news anchors are AI, and no one questions this fact. What becomes questionable, or rather obscured, is whose perspective we are presented with. But, this is already the case at once whenever scripted news is decoupled from whatever it is to be journalism. Again, I cite the *Telecom act* and the disappearance of the radio disc jockey.
Lastly, there is the cyborg revolution. I am thinking of Donna Haraway's "Cyborg Manifesto",
or every time I prepare a post by googling, looking through my books, or more generally consulting my extended mind.
Sent from the Friam mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
|
|
In reply to this post by gepr
Not about UV, but more along the lines of Kimmel's video:
https://counter.social/system/media_attachments/files/000/726/335/original/b164ce96f368c5f8.mp4?1611268526 On 1/21/21 10:13 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: > I can't help but wonder if this is related to sentiments like Justine's rejection of "natural" interfaces and conceptions of [ab|mis]use? My first bad reaction to machine/software was when I tried to play one of the Dark Souls games <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Souls> for the first time. There are some instructions in the form of a tutorial area, but nothing like the way games used to be ... like with a whole instruction manual on how to play. Maybe if the interface is *natural enough*, then it's likable. But if it's just a tad less than natural, then it makes you nauseous ... like how VR affects some people ... or like a psychopath who hasn't quite learned how to mimic normies' emotional affect. > > On 1/21/21 9:23 AM, Steve Smith wrote: >> I wonder how much lead time went into making this series of fakes wandering the uncanny valley between shallow and deep fake? >> >> Na Na Na Na, Goodbye - Kimmel <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZqu8ojifhU> >> >> This class of "magic" will be for the current children growing up what the elders here experienced with the classic production of Wizard of Oz when it shifted abruptly from BW to Technicolor as Dorothy emerged from her Tornado-House in Oz. Or perhaps the well executed insertion of Forrest Gump into various bits of historical footage from the 60's (auspiciously his speech at the DC Mall during the Vietnam Protests). Or perhaps the Toy Story experience as a feature 3D animated movie. Or maybe the integration of live and 2D/3D animation in Roger Rabbit or Howard the Duck <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mz3oytpugs>. >> >> All *exploiting* the uncanny valley whilst exploring it. > > -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
|
Re: exploiting the uncanny valley...
|
|
My peeve of late is with people that talk about latent low dimensional representations as if it were a given that they exist and are generally valid to use. Of course, these animations hold most variables constant about their subjects and change some coarse or local geometry. They are not generative models trained on observed behavior. I dream of an avatar that can reproduce me on Zoom calls for a few days so I can go to the park and play with my dog. I'd like to have training sets like "in a good mood and feeling generous" which I could replay again and again and again coupled to whatever topic. Eliza like stuff that just responds to the speaker with remarks like "What a good idea? Can you tell me more?"
-----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:10 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] exploiting the uncanny valley... Not about UV, but more along the lines of Kimmel's video: https://counter.social/system/media_attachments/files/000/726/335/original/b164ce96f368c5f8.mp4?1611268526 On 1/21/21 10:13 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: > I can't help but wonder if this is related to sentiments like Justine's rejection of "natural" interfaces and conceptions of [ab|mis]use? My first bad reaction to machine/software was when I tried to play one of the Dark Souls games <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Souls> for the first time. There are some instructions in the form of a tutorial area, but nothing like the way games used to be ... like with a whole instruction manual on how to play. Maybe if the interface is *natural enough*, then it's likable. But if it's just a tad less than natural, then it makes you nauseous ... like how VR affects some people ... or like a psychopath who hasn't quite learned how to mimic normies' emotional affect. > > On 1/21/21 9:23 AM, Steve Smith wrote: >> I wonder how much lead time went into making this series of fakes wandering the uncanny valley between shallow and deep fake? >> >> Na Na Na Na, Goodbye - Kimmel >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZqu8ojifhU> >> >> This class of "magic" will be for the current children growing up >> what the elders here experienced with the classic production of Wizard of Oz when it shifted abruptly from BW to Technicolor as Dorothy emerged from her Tornado-House in Oz. Or perhaps the well executed insertion of Forrest Gump into various bits of historical footage from the 60's (auspiciously his speech at the DC Mall during the Vietnam Protests). Or perhaps the Toy Story experience as a feature 3D animated movie. Or maybe the integration of live and 2D/3D animation in Roger Rabbit or Howard the Duck <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mz3oytpugs>. >> >> All *exploiting* the uncanny valley whilst exploring it. > > -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
|
|
I think the low dim representations do exist, but are social constructions [⛧]. Dark Souls is interesting because it gave rise to the "souls-like" genre. I think part of the reason the DS games were labeled notoriously hard is because the representation did not exist as an intersubjective thing. Your Zoom avatar(s) could be constructed either by profiling you and mimicking that *or* by profiling everyone else in lots of Zoom meetings (subtracting you out), setting constraints within which your avatar randomly wiggles. I think the latter would produce a much freer/schizoidal avatar than the former. So, I think that argues for the existence of those low dimensional representations, even if they're fragile or somewhat incoherent.
How latent they are depends, I'm guessing, on iteration. How often does one have the same (type of) interaction with the same set of people so that the pattern of the interactions becomes ingrained or pushed "down" into habit? And does variation decrease (monotonically) as iterations pile up? When I first started brushing my teeth with my left hand, I was terrible at it. I tried to get my left hand to mimic my right hand. But that was simply the wrong way to do it. I finally gave up on mimicry and allowed my left hand to wiggle whatever way it wanted in order to focus on the objective of brushing. Now I'm quite good at it. But the way I brush with my left hand is different from the way I brush with my right, much more arm movement and much less wrist movement, the way I grip the brush differs, etc. And that experience helped with a badly acute case of tennis and golfer's elbow after chemo when I was trying to build my strength back. I got tennis elbow on my right side and golfer's on my left. The way our stabilizer muscles work seems to be a good example of latent low dimensional representation. I'm not sure where the data stands these days on innate handedness, though. [⛧] That whole argument that the OSX UI is/was somehow more intuitive than, say, Windows is just nonsense to me. I explicitly bought an Apple laptop in 2000 *just* to train myself. I used it for something like 3 years on a daily basis. I never grokked it. It was similarly difficult to get a hold on Ubuntu Unity and Gnome 3. But because I could escape to the command-line any time, I stuck with it longer and finally grokked it. (Had to give up Gnome 3 for Xfce4, though. I guess my age is seriously impacting my willingness to engage unfriendly interfaces.) On 1/21/21 4:12 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > My peeve of late is with people that talk about latent low dimensional representations as if it were a given that they exist and are generally valid to use. Of course, these animations hold most variables constant about their subjects and change some coarse or local geometry. They are not generative models trained on observed behavior. I dream of an avatar that can reproduce me on Zoom calls for a few days so I can go to the park and play with my dog. I'd like to have training sets like "in a good mood and feeling generous" which I could replay again and again and again coupled to whatever topic. Eliza like stuff that just responds to the speaker with remarks like "What a good idea? Can you tell me more?" -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
|
Re: exploiting the uncanny valley...
|
|
In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels
Yes! Please say more.
-- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
Re: exploiting the uncanny valley...
|
|
In reply to this post by jon zingale
Jon wrote: From the other side come humans moving closer to the non-human or even simply a different human: plastic surgeries and botox'd lips, Thailand's cross-dressing prostitutes, internet catfishing, Victor-Victoria, "Boy's don't cry", butoh dance, (acting in general?). Don't forget the entire posthuman movement. davew On Thu, Jan 21, 2021, at 12:40 PM, jon zingale wrote:
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
Re: exploiting the uncanny valley...
|
|
In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels
Coors Brewery was giving away a Zoom Avatar a few months back. Posted a link on the list then. Don't know if still available. Don't know if it included "product placement."
davew On Thu, Jan 21, 2021, at 5:12 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > My peeve of late is with people that talk about latent low dimensional > representations as if it were a given that they exist and are generally > valid to use. Of course, these animations hold most variables constant > about their subjects and change some coarse or local geometry. They > are not generative models trained on observed behavior. I dream of an > avatar that can reproduce me on Zoom calls for a few days so I can go > to the park and play with my dog. I'd like to have training sets like > "in a good mood and feeling generous" which I could replay again and > again and again coupled to whatever topic. Eliza like stuff that just > responds to the speaker with remarks like "What a good idea? Can you > tell me more?" > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 3:10 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] exploiting the uncanny valley... > > Not about UV, but more along the lines of Kimmel's video: > > https://counter.social/system/media_attachments/files/000/726/335/original/b164ce96f368c5f8.mp4?1611268526 > > On 1/21/21 10:13 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: > > I can't help but wonder if this is related to sentiments like Justine's rejection of "natural" interfaces and conceptions of [ab|mis]use? My first bad reaction to machine/software was when I tried to play one of the Dark Souls games <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Souls> for the first time. There are some instructions in the form of a tutorial area, but nothing like the way games used to be ... like with a whole instruction manual on how to play. Maybe if the interface is *natural enough*, then it's likable. But if it's just a tad less than natural, then it makes you nauseous ... like how VR affects some people ... or like a psychopath who hasn't quite learned how to mimic normies' emotional affect. > > > > On 1/21/21 9:23 AM, Steve Smith wrote: > >> I wonder how much lead time went into making this series of fakes wandering the uncanny valley between shallow and deep fake? > >> > >> Na Na Na Na, Goodbye - Kimmel > >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZqu8ojifhU> > >> > >> This class of "magic" will be for the current children growing up > >> what the elders here experienced with the classic production of Wizard of Oz when it shifted abruptly from BW to Technicolor as Dorothy emerged from her Tornado-House in Oz. Or perhaps the well executed insertion of Forrest Gump into various bits of historical footage from the 60's (auspiciously his speech at the DC Mall during the Vietnam Protests). Or perhaps the Toy Story experience as a feature 3D animated movie. Or maybe the integration of live and 2D/3D animation in Roger Rabbit or Howard the Duck <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mz3oytpugs>. > >> > >> All *exploiting* the uncanny valley whilst exploring it. > > > > > > -- > ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
|
|
In reply to this post by jon zingale
Y'all aren't being fair to Eliza!
vvvvvvvvvvvvv Below is Emacs' Doctor's query given Marcus' post: MGD: My peeve of late is with people that talk about latent low dimensional representations as if it were a given that they exist and are generally valid to use. Of course, these animations hold most variables constant about their subjects and change some coarse or local geometry. They are not generative models trained on observed behavior. I dream of an avatar that can reproduce me on Zoom calls for a few days so I can go to the park and play with my dog. I'd like to have training sets like "in a good mood and feeling generous" which I could replay again and again and again coupled to whatever topic. Psychotherapist: Why do you say you might want to have training sets this good mood and feeling generous which you could replay again and again and again coupled to whatever topic? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It clearly doesn't handle that much text. It's more interesting if we give it one sentence at a time: vvvvvvvvvvvvvvv MGD: My peeve of late is with people that talk about latent low dimensional representations as if it were a given that they exist and are generally valid to use. PsychoT: Is it because talk about latent low dimensional representations as if it were a given that they exist and are generally valid to use that you came to me? MGD: Of course, these animations hold most variables constant about their subjects and change some coarse or local geometry. PsychoT: Tell me about something about math. MGD: They are not generative models trained on observed behavior. PsychoT: What makes you believe that? MGD: I dream of an avatar that can reproduce me on Zoom calls for a few days so I can go to the park and play with my dog. PsychoT: Does it bother you that can reproduce you on zoom calls for a few days so you can go to the park and play with your dog? MGD: I'd like to have training sets like "in a good mood and feeling generous" which I could replay again and again and again coupled to whatever topic. PscyhoT: How does it feel to want? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I mean, that's pretty deep, right? 8^D On 1/21/21 10:32 PM, jon zingale wrote: > Yes! Please say more. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
|
Re: exploiting the uncanny valley...
|
|
In reply to this post by jon zingale
Jon - I appreciate your observation about approaching the UV from either side, there is definitely an asymmetry, though as with my earlier references to "estuarial" it seems like there must be some intermediate territory where one can wash or slosh back and forth each direction and find some commutivity? I suspect *someone* has done some research/investigation on this in the realm of Max Headroom? I didn't bother to Google but it seems like synchronicity if someone hasn't done a Headroom workup on Trump, especially with "Network XXIII, a world where nothing matters but ratings!". I am also reminded (as I often am) of the Inter-reality work of Gintautas and Hubler when I see the coupling, for example, of the slime-mold and the robot face and when I think of the coupling of individuals in social network contexts like Instagram (followers and influencers) where the fans influence the influencers as much as vice-versa, or in odd hysteresis loops. I think your point about identity and sources of information are very relevant (and related to what I said last paragraph about who is leading and who is following or who's influencing the influencers). - Steve
From a naive glance, there appears a misleading duality, that of approaching the valley from one side or the other. For instance, the use of puppets to bring the non-human closer to the human: Jim Henson's work, the dancing figures in Kimmel's piece, the neural net fake exemplified by "Nixon's moon landing", neural net fever dreams of photorealistic models that never existed, or the now all-to-common place notion of an embedded avatar as in "Snow Crash", "All Tomorrow's Parties", "The Matrix" ... - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
Re: exploiting the uncanny valley...
|
|
Steve, the sloshing space might be in the world of games that are blurring the boundary between on-line and physical reality - Pokemon go would be a trivial and simplistic example. This is an emerging SF trope - see Waltern Jon Williams, This is Not a Game - or my favorite Daniel Suarez Daemon and Freedom (same story over two novels). davew On Fri, Jan 22, 2021, at 9:46 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
Re: exploiting the uncanny valley...
|
|
Good point... esp MMORPGs I'm a big fan of WJW (and erstwhile friend, some 2 decades ago) At your reference, I read suarez
including Daemon this last year or so...
Ready Player I and Ready Player II
come to mind.
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
Re: exploiting the uncanny valley...
|
|
^^^ As to uncanny valley WoW (and blizzards cutscenes in general) ge into that. A lot of modern AAA games do. CDProjectreds CP77 is all polygons, but their are some places that come creei-ply close to almost photo realistic. WoW's developers were some of the most clever their plague event (for instance) and economics are studies as kind of a good enough approximation to the real world to. The last 4 years is right out of maxheadroom life (in general) has gotten to where it's all about the ratings and popularity. In gamerspeak we've moved from skill, and substance to gearscore(now bad ass someones armor and weapons are) way to much style over substance-sort of. looks do count to! For example in the Whicher (singleplayer game), and the Transformer live actions: look at the transformers and tell me if those are models and clever use of perspective over CGI? On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 10:32 AM Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
|
|
In reply to this post by gepr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HoH8CMV3DU "And I figure that Surf Rock would be the most fun way to do that." No! No! No! NO!! NO!!! NOOOOO!!!!! 8^D Like with brewing up a Pale Ale or a Pilsner, what the plebes think might be the easiest to produce often requires the most skilled producer. Any hack can brew Peanut Butter Bacon Porter. It's the things we take for granted that require the most expertise. That old saw "How hard can it be?" is the most delusional phrase we have. On 1/21/21 5:49 PM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: > > How latent they are depends, I'm guessing, on iteration. How often does one have the same (type of) interaction with the same set of people so that the pattern of the interactions becomes ingrained or pushed "down" into habit? And does variation decrease (monotonically) as iterations pile up? When I first started brushing my teeth with my left hand, I was terrible at it. I tried to get my left hand to mimic my right hand. But that was simply the wrong way to do it. I finally gave up on mimicry and allowed my left hand to wiggle whatever way it wanted in order to focus on the objective of brushing. Now I'm quite good at it. But the way I brush with my left hand is different from the way I brush with my right, much more arm movement and much less wrist movement, the way I grip the brush differs, etc. And that experience helped with a badly acute case of tennis and golfer's elbow after chemo when I was trying to build my strength back. I got tennis elbow on my right side and golfer's on my left. The way our stabilizer muscles work seems to be a good example of latent low dimensional representation. I'm not sure where the data stands these days on innate handedness, though. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
|
Re: exploiting the uncanny valley...
|
|
A hearing aid concept for Nick. Composition of signals..
https://youtu.be/yzwPZ27ju5I -----Original Message----- From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2021 3:55 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] exploiting the uncanny valley... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HoH8CMV3DU "And I figure that Surf Rock would be the most fun way to do that." No! No! No! NO!! NO!!! NOOOOO!!!!! 8^D Like with brewing up a Pale Ale or a Pilsner, what the plebes think might be the easiest to produce often requires the most skilled producer. Any hack can brew Peanut Butter Bacon Porter. It's the things we take for granted that require the most expertise. That old saw "How hard can it be?" is the most delusional phrase we have. On 1/21/21 5:49 PM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: > > How latent they are depends, I'm guessing, on iteration. How often does one have the same (type of) interaction with the same set of people so that the pattern of the interactions becomes ingrained or pushed "down" into habit? And does variation decrease (monotonically) as iterations pile up? When I first started brushing my teeth with my left hand, I was terrible at it. I tried to get my left hand to mimic my right hand. But that was simply the wrong way to do it. I finally gave up on mimicry and allowed my left hand to wiggle whatever way it wanted in order to focus on the objective of brushing. Now I'm quite good at it. But the way I brush with my left hand is different from the way I brush with my right, much more arm movement and much less wrist movement, the way I grip the brush differs, etc. And that experience helped with a badly acute case of tennis and golfer's elbow after chemo when I was trying to build my strength back. I got tennis elbow on my right side and golfer's on my left. The way our stabilizer muscles work seems to be a good example of latent low dimensional representation. I'm not sure where the data stands these days on innate handedness, though. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ |
Re: exploiting the uncanny valley...
|
|
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Gillian Densmore
Gillian,
I am pretty impressed with the progress Blizzard has made with WoW. While I have never played it myself[!], a handful of my closest friends meet to play twice a week. Thankfully, one of them being a pod mate, and so I get to drink beers with them and talk shit while they fail to dungeon crawl. I keep trying to get this pod mate to join us on vFriam to chat about a handful of topics that come up here and where the state-of-the-art appears to be carried by institutions like Blizzard (network security, team synergy, etc...). To commemorate how far things have come since the 90's, I offer this procession of simulacra. And yes, there will be girls there: [!] Though, I did write an inaccessibility proof for the Friender mini-game which extends to an accessibility proof for the Shaman Totem puzzle. |
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |