do animals psychologize?
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And then what will we die of? Before we make life infinite, we better change the laws to make death voluntary. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels A couple articles in this week’s Science relating to the programmability of cells. http://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6408/eaap8987 “This enables the design of cycles and developmental networks for engineering applications that require that cells exist in a particular state for an unspecified amount of time. For example, therapeutic cells could be built to sense transient stimuli, such as throughout the gastrointestinal tract, and switch to a new state when the next signal is encountered. There are similar applications for diagnostic cells (48, 76–81), pathways to complex chemicals and materials that require cycles of ordered operations (82), and sentinel plants and microbes with responsive traits (31, 83, 84).” http://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6408/1252 “For example, existing cancer-detection circuits (66, 67) could conditionally express CHOMP components to increase specificity and couple to protein-mediated inputs and outputs. Integrating these capabilities, one can envision smart therapeutics or sentinels based on CHOMP circuits (68, 69).” And those are the just some of the friendly applications. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: do animals psychologize?
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There’s almost certainly blue-screen-of-death scenarios here – we die of bugs, or bio-malware.
From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> And then what will we die of?
Before we make life infinite, we better change the laws to make death voluntary.
N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]]
On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels A couple articles in this week’s Science relating to the programmability of cells. http://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6408/eaap8987 “This enables the design of cycles and developmental networks for engineering applications that require that cells exist in a particular state for an unspecified amount of time. For example, therapeutic cells
could be built to sense transient stimuli, such as throughout the gastrointestinal tract, and switch to a new state when the next signal is encountered. There are similar applications for diagnostic cells (48,
76–81), pathways to complex
chemicals and materials that require cycles of ordered operations (82), and sentinel plants and microbes with responsive traits (31,
83,
84).” http://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6408/1252 “For example, existing cancer-detection circuits (66,
67) could conditionally express CHOMP components to increase specificity and couple to protein-mediated inputs and outputs. Integrating these capabilities,
one can envision smart therapeutics or sentinels based on CHOMP circuits (68,
69).” And those are the just some of the friendly applications. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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Same as it ever was. Death is already *mostly* voluntary. Anyone can commit suicide any time they want. That the overwhelming majority of us *choose* not to is important. The particular alternatives we continually choose to engage define us. Would you rather ingest engineered cells? Or perhaps (as I did) engineered antibodies? I've long thought that the Singularity is metaphysical hooha; and generalized AI will arise through a merging of wet- with hard-ware ... chip in the brain before brain in the laptop, an evolution not a revolution. So, programmatically controllable cells just seems like a natural step along the way ... much like the spittle bug's kidney and the built environments we all find surrounding us.
On 9/21/18 7:53 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > There’s almost certainly blue-screen-of-death scenarios here – we die of bugs, or bio-malware. > > > > *From: *Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> > *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]> > *Date: *Friday, September 21, 2018 at 8:46 AM > *To: *'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <[hidden email]> > *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize? > > > > And then what will we die of? > > > > Before we make life infinite, we better change the laws to make death voluntary. -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Re: do animals psychologize?
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Just got bill at our house for a small bag of those engineered antibodies for a cool $90,000 US. Things get more interesting when it is $900.
Technology does move that fast, e.g. this GPU comparison w.r.t. ray tracing. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/09/nvidia-rtx-2080-and-2080-ti-review-a-tale-of-two-very-expensive-graphics-cards/4/ On 9/21/18, 10:02 AM, "Friam on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote: Same as it ever was. Death is already *mostly* voluntary. Anyone can commit suicide any time they want. That the overwhelming majority of us *choose* not to is important. The particular alternatives we continually choose to engage define us. Would you rather ingest engineered cells? Or perhaps (as I did) engineered antibodies? I've long thought that the Singularity is metaphysical hooha; and generalized AI will arise through a merging of wet- with hard-ware ... chip in the brain before brain in the laptop, an evolution not a revolution. So, programmatically controllable cells just seems like a natural step along the way ... much like the spittle bug's kidney and the built environments we all find surrounding us. On 9/21/18 7:53 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > There’s almost certainly blue-screen-of-death scenarios here – we die of bugs, or bio-malware. > > > > *From: *Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> > *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]> > *Date: *Friday, September 21, 2018 at 8:46 AM > *To: *'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <[hidden email]> > *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] do animals psychologize? > > > > And then what will we die of? > > > > Before we make life infinite, we better change the laws to make death voluntary. -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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$90k? Wow. I thought mine were expensive at $60k/dose. During each and every infusion, I kept spending those 5 hours, sitting in that chair, mulling it over *how* it could be worth that amount of money. The amount of money spent on my treatment was astronomical. The drug alone (in principle, I was on a clinical trial and didn't pay for the drug) would be valued at 30 months, 1 infusion each month ⇒ 30*$60k = $1.8 mil ... not including the chemo, CT scans, blood tests, hours put in by the nurses, etc. It's fairly difficult for me to justify.
It's easier to talk about my own inadequacy. But the son of a friend of ours recently had a really really bad car accident. He was in the ICU for ~30 days and just the 1st day in the ICU cost $51k. They're now in debt to the tune of ~$2 mil from one car accident. And, although he's moved all his limbs and his pupils are now dilating with the light, his brain is probably severely damaged. And even if he wakes up, he's facing a long recovery. This friend of ours cleans houses for a living and, although they have some insurance, they have no idea how much of the bill it'll pay. I suppose my point is that these numbers, $60k, $51k, $90k seem wrong to me in some ... ethical? ... sense. When Republicans were fighting the individual mandate and equating car insurance with health insurance, it was (and is) very difficult to clearly express how *false* that equivalence is. Anyone who doesn't grok it must not have had any experience with the healthcare system at all. It's not as simple as the left-wing rhetoric of universal healthcare being some sort of human right. The problem is way deeper and of much higher dimension. Such things are just not reducible to the single dimension of dollars. On 09/21/2018 10:55 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Just got bill at our house for a small bag of those engineered antibodies for a cool $90,000 US. Things get more interesting when it is $900. > Technology does move that fast, e.g. this GPU comparison w.r.t. ray tracing. > > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/09/nvidia-rtx-2080-and-2080-ti-review-a-tale-of-two-very-expensive-graphics-cards/4/ -- ∄ uǝʃƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Re: do animals psychologize?
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Glen writes:
"I suppose my point is that these numbers, $60k, $51k, $90k seem wrong to me in some ... ethical? ... sense. " If we assume that more and more people will have cancer because people will live longer, and other diseases will have good treatments, then basically we're talking about billions of people around the world that may benefit from these treatments, and say 50-100 million in the US in a few decades? There will be other diseases that benefit from high-priced treatments too, but just the big C by itself could break the bank. It doesn't matter if everyone is paying into insurance (directly or indirectly) because the costs won't be sustainable. It seems the pricing is aggressive, in the hopes that some insurer will agree to it, but often it seems the drug company will agree to a smaller amount. Would be nice to see open source competitors emerge, as the technology emerges to make that affordable. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: do animals psychologize?
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Sheesh. I was feeling bad because my wife needs some osteoporosis medication with a copay of 750/month for 15 months. Obviously, it could be a lot worse. Frank On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 9:18 AM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote: Glen writes: -- Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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