capitalism vs. individualism
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Sorry, Steve, to have taken you name in vain. I thought the views expressed were a bit more Steve-ish than Dave-ish … (};-)] So, what is the difference between Steve-ish and Dave-ish on this topic? Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steven A Smith Nick -
Whether FriAM's server or my mailer's mode of larding vs your mode of reading it, you misattribute these words to me when they were in fact Dave's... what follows *after* that, namely the Lakoff/Nunez reference and discussion of that perspective is mine. Carry on! - Steve
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In reply to this post by Russell Standish-2
Hi, Russ, Oh, gosh. You have always done right by me, and now I have to confess a sin. I have accurately traced the word back to the Latin word for "fart". However, in order to be more colorful, I left out an intermediate step in the etymology. I am afraid the French got in there. During the middle ages when people were running around laying siege to one another’s castles, somebody invented a bomb which soldiers would place against the lock of the castle doors in order to blow them open. To maximize the force exerted on the doors, the bombs were heavily packed. Hence, when they went off, they went Pfffft! rather than Boom! Hence the name, Petard,, I think. So, in fact, I was a little bit pulling your leg. I like the idea that being hoist by one's petard is a reference to a particular form of falling from one's high horse. As a former academic, being flung from the saddle of your High Horse by your own hot air, seems a proper way to go. So, in fact, all of this is an example of itself. Shamefacedly, Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -----Original Message----- On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 12:27:39PM -0700, Nick Thompson wrote: > > By the way, speaking of etymology, to be hoist by one’s own petard is > to be ejected from one’s own saddle by the force of one’s own fart. Look it up. Thanks for this. I always knew that petard meant fart, since schoolboy French anyway, but did ocasionally wonder how you get hoisted by a fart. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Senior Research Fellow [hidden email] Economics, Kingston University http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
The Monomyth is definitely "widely found." Campbell talks about the hero with 1001 faces. There are roughly 18,000 different cultures identified (historic and prehistoric). I have no idea what percentage have a hero myth. DMT experiences are "spookily" similar. You do have a very strong sense that there are "others" there, that they are waiting for you (you are expected), and they are happy to great you. There are "monsters" "evil beings" there as well and they are perceived to be rabidly hostile. A lot of the symbology present seems to reflect the common, often cross cultural, symbols and sacred geometry that Jung asserted as evidence of a collective unconscious. DMT is present, manufactured, in the human brain and exists in most plant life. A number of DMT researchers have speculated that the drug, at the dosage in the human brain, is "responsible" for the collective hallucination that all humans seem to experience as Reality. The dosage, not the background, cultural or otherwise, seems to determine "which universe/reality" is experienced. You don't get to the realm of the evil ones until you hit the high dosage. Ayuhuasca is pretty much gardens and Gaia. davew On Mon, Nov 18, 2019, at 5:28 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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I looked for some scientific evidence of this, but failed to find it. Can you clue me in to the sources showing it's made in the brain?
On 11/19/19 7:10 AM, Prof David West wrote: > DMT is present, manufactured, in the human brain ... ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Glen,
The primary source of the assertion is probably Rick Strassman, M.D., a clinical psychiatrist at the University of New Mexico. I have some other papers in a filing cabinet back in Utah that seem to take endogenous DMT as a given and then focused on why and how it got there. davew On Tue, Nov 19, 2019, at 4:45 PM, glen∈ℂ wrote: > I looked for some scientific evidence of this, but failed to find it. > Can you clue me in to the sources showing it's made in the brain? > > On 11/19/19 7:10 AM, Prof David West wrote: > > DMT is present, manufactured, in the human brain ... > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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Thanks. The evidence is still correlational, I suppose. But this article seems to provide strong evidence that rats do it:
Biosynthesis and Extracellular Concentrations of N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) in Mammalian Brain https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45812-w I'm still skeptical, of course. There's a lot that rats do that we don't. 8^) On 11/20/19 1:34 AM, Prof David West wrote: > The primary source of the assertion is probably Rick Strassman, M.D., a clinical psychiatrist at the University of New Mexico. I have some other papers in a filing cabinet back in Utah that seem to take endogenous DMT as a given and then focused on why and how it got there. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Glen,
Your question challenged the grounds on which I made the simple assertion (one that I had made many times before). Other than Strassman who directly asserts the human brain makes DMT, all the other sources seemed to take that as a given and look at other aspects, so I did to. Obviously, it is more complicated than that, and I need to qualify the assertion a bit. Thanks for making me think about this. davew On Wed, Nov 20, 2019, at 4:48 PM, glen∈ℂ wrote: > Thanks. The evidence is still correlational, I suppose. But this > article seems to provide strong evidence that rats do it: > > Biosynthesis and Extracellular Concentrations of N,N-dimethyltryptamine > (DMT) in Mammalian Brain > https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45812-w > > I'm still skeptical, of course. There's a lot that rats do that we don't. 8^) > > On 11/20/19 1:34 AM, Prof David West wrote: > > The primary source of the assertion is probably Rick Strassman, M.D., a clinical psychiatrist at the University of New Mexico. I have some other papers in a filing cabinet back in Utah that seem to take endogenous DMT as a given and then focused on why and how it got there. > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by Prof David West
Here from the Neuropsychopharmacologia Hungarica 2007, IX/4; 201-205, which, of course, I follow religiously, is a lovely little summary which is NOT behind a paywall. I like to think of our author, bathed in endogenous dmt, living out is his golden years in the ten thousand block of Jolly Way. Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -----Original Message----- Glen, The primary source of the assertion is probably Rick Strassman, M.D., a clinical psychiatrist at the University of New Mexico. I have some other papers in a filing cabinet back in Utah that seem to take endogenous DMT as a given and then focused on why and how it got there. davew On Tue, Nov 19, 2019, at 4:45 PM, glen∈ℂ wrote: > I looked for some scientific evidence of this, but failed to find it. > Can you clue me in to the sources showing it's made in the brain? > > On 11/19/19 7:10 AM, Prof David West wrote: > > DMT is present, manufactured, in the human brain ... > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College to unsubscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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Well, even here, we see the admission: "This pessimistic view, however, is not shared by everybody in the field and further re-search needed to clarify this issue."
Of course, at some resolution, it's irrelevant whether the DMT was ingested, say by eating some rat meat 8^), or produced from tryptamine. It's found inside and excreted by humans who aren't tripping or exhibiting schizophrenia. So, whether it's Truly endogenous or not becomes a bit academic. The real question is whether or not its presence *increases* near death, in meditation, under stress like heart attacks, or whatever. If it does, then wherever it comes from, it plays some significant role in how we manage those situations. I've recently been trying out the "Wim Hof Method" ... a kinda pretentious way to hyperventilate. The distribution of the tingling over different parts of my body is pretty damned cool, to be honest. It reminds me of the "contrast" they inject before a CT scan. But the hyperventilating tingle seems to concentrate in large muscles like my lats, back, and legs, unlike the contrast, which simply flows from the neck down. I'm told there's a tolerance and the tingling fades the more you do it. That would suck ... much like it sucks that heavy drinkers have to drink *more* to get a buzz. 8^) On 11/20/19 9:12 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > Here <http://epa.niif.hu/02400/02454/00027/pdf/EPA02454_neurohun_2007_201-205.pdf> from the Neuropsychopharmacologia Hungarica 2007, IX/4; 201-205, which, of course, I follow religiously, is a lovely little summary which is NOT behind a paywall. -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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In reply to this post by Nick Thompson
So, here's a question that's been percolating as I've listened to Philip Goff talk about his form of panpsychism <https://thepanpsycast.com/panpsycast>. Is it consistent [†] for a person to be:
1) A behaviorist, 2) A methodological pluralist, and 3) A monist. It seems to me that (1) and (2) prevent (3). [†] Note that it's fine to be inconsistent. As an admitted pluralist, I'd be inconsistent to disallow inconsistency. 8^) Or, maybe it's better to say, in order to be consistent, I must allow inconsistency. On 11/17/19 11:27 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > Well, I should have conceded this point long ago: of course I am a è/methodological //ç /pluralist. There are many ways to skin a cat. -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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