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academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

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Roger Critchlow-2

academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

Great article in Science this week:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6219/262.short

The more the practitioners of an academic field agree that "Being a top scholar of

[discipline] requires a special aptitude that just can’t be taught", the less successful women and african americans are in the field, as measured by the percentage of PhD's graduated. Measured across all disciplines and in competition with three other hypotheses.

-- rec --

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Nick Thompson

Re: academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

Wow, Roger!

So, Philosophy is a field is one about which people believe that that “raw talent’ is necessary as opposed, say, to careful technique and diligent hard work.

I have been a philosophy camp follower for years and I NEVER would have said that. Much as I love philosophy and have gotten benefit from philosophers, the one philosophy conference I went to was the worst collection of arrogant snots I have ever stood in a room with. Seemed like a field in which “positioning” is EVERYTHING.

Come to FRIAM to talk talk about it.

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 6:53 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

Great article in Science this week:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6219/262.short

The more the practitioners of an academic field agree that "Being a top scholar of

-- rec --

Steve Smith

Re: academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

On 1/16/15 8:46 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:

Wow, Roger!

So, Philosophy is a field is one about which people believe that that “raw talent’ is necessary as opposed, say, to careful technique and diligent hard work.

I have been a philosophy camp follower for years and I NEVER would have said that. Much as I love philosophy and have gotten benefit from philosophers, the one philosophy conference I went to was the worst collection of arrogant snots I have ever stood in a room with. Seemed like a field in which “positioning” is EVERYTHING.

Come to FRIAM to talk talk about it.

what with all those arrogant snots?
<grin>
I had a great convo with Wimberly at WedTech yesterday (which I also never make)... but Friday's and Town and I hardly ever make all together in the same time and place...

I'm sure you are having a great time as I type this.

N

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 6:53 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

Great article in Science this week:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6219/262.short

The more the practitioners of an academic field agree that "Being a top scholar of

[discipline] requires a special aptitude that just can’t be taught", the less successful women and african americans are in the field, as measured by the percentage of PhD's graduated. Measured across all disciplines and in competition with three other hypotheses.

-- rec --
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Nick Thompson

Re: academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

Steve,

I was, actually. It was a great conversation. It began with one of my favorite things which is taking seriously the fact that when physicists talk about particle behavior they often have recourse to psychological concepts. My position is that, far from being a facon de parler pour communiquer avec des idiots, using psychological concepts in such a context is a precise way of talking about electrons if one understands psychological concepts properly. We quickly metamorphosed into a discussion of the plusses and minuses of multi-culturalism. It was wonderful the range of personal experience we were able to bring to bear on this subject and the lack of guardedness with which we were able to explore it given our diverse history. Still, I wish you (and roger) had been there.

It was the BEST.

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 10:32 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

On 1/16/15 8:46 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:

Wow, Roger!

So, Philosophy is a field is one about which people believe that that “raw talent’ is necessary as opposed, say, to careful technique and diligent hard work.

I have been a philosophy camp follower for years and I NEVER would have said that. Much as I love philosophy and have gotten benefit from philosophers, the one philosophy conference I went to was the worst collection of arrogant snots I have ever stood in a room with. Seemed like a field in which “positioning” is EVERYTHING.

Come to FRIAM to talk talk about it.

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 6:53 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

Great article in Science this week:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6219/262.short

The more the practitioners of an academic field agree that "Being a top scholar of
[discipline] requires a special aptitude that just can’t be taught", the less successful women and african americans are in the field, as measured by the percentage of PhD's graduated. Measured across all disciplines and in competition with three other hypotheses.

-- rec --
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Marcus G. Daniels

[ SPAM ] Re: academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

> It was wonderful the range of personal experience we were able to
> bring to bear on this subject and the lack of guardedness with which
> we were able to explore it given our diverse history.

Another benefit of in-person meetings is that this list fails to
actually deliver all mails!

Marcus

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Steve Smith

Re: academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

In reply to this post by Nick Thompson

Nick -

Not to pick nits or split hairs but can you be more precise (including an example) of what you mean by psychological concepts? I'm a big fan of Lakoff and his theories of Embedded Cognition, and following his lead would be more tempted to use the term "metaphor", as I tend to think of "psychological concepts" as "concepts introduced into the vernacular by the discipline of psychology" which I think is way off base if for no other reason than it it is way up the stack of layered metaphors. I suspect that wasn't what you meant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embodied_cognition

Steve,

I was, actually. It was a great conversation. It began with one of my favorite things which is taking seriously the fact that when physicists talk about particle behavior they often have recourse to psychological concepts. My position is that, far from being a facon de parler pour communiquer avec des idiots, using psychological concepts in such a context is a precise way of talking about electrons if one understands psychological concepts properly. We quickly metamorphosed into a discussion of the plusses and minuses of multi-culturalism. It was wonderful the range of personal experience we were able to bring to bear on this subject and the lack of guardedness with which we were able to explore it given our diverse history. Still, I wish you (and roger) had been there.

It was the BEST.

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 10:32 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

On 1/16/15 8:46 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:

Wow, Roger!

So, Philosophy is a field is one about which people believe that that “raw talent’ is necessary as opposed, say, to careful technique and diligent hard work.

I have been a philosophy camp follower for years and I NEVER would have said that. Much as I love philosophy and have gotten benefit from philosophers, the one philosophy conference I went to was the worst collection of arrogant snots I have ever stood in a room with. Seemed like a field in which “positioning” is EVERYTHING.

Come to FRIAM to talk talk about it.

what with all those arrogant snots?
<grin>
I had a great convo with Wimberly at WedTech yesterday (which I also never make)... but Friday's and Town and I hardly ever make all together in the same time and place...

I'm sure you are having a great time as I type this.
N

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 6:53 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

Great article in Science this week:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6219/262.short

The more the practitioners of an academic field agree that "Being a top scholar of

[discipline] requires a special aptitude that just can’t be taught", the less successful women and african americans are in the field, as measured by the percentage of PhD's graduated. Measured across all disciplines and in competition with three other hypotheses.

-- rec --
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Steve Smith

Re: [ SPAM ] Re: academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels

On 1/16/15 12:59 PM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote:
>> It was wonderful the range of personal experience we were able to
>> bring to bear on this subject and the lack of guardedness with which
>> we were able to explore it given our diverse history.
> Another benefit of in-person meetings is that this list fails to
> actually deliver all mails!
I know... I only occasionally recognize that fact... I think Nick was
the first to notice a while back and suggested that it was a conspiracy
against him alone... which I also feel sometimes...

On the other hand, I find that in-person, there are usually at least two
parallel "threads" and while I can survey multiples, I can't really
participate in more than one effectively without seeming entirely ADD.
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: [ SPAM ] Re: academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

> I know... I only occasionally recognize that fact... I think Nick was
> the first to notice a while back and suggested that it was a conspiracy
> against him alone... which I also feel sometimes...

It is a wonderful outcome if two (hypothetical) agents with
diametrically opposed viewpoints can both infer a conspiracy against
them. A conspiracy that must originate from the other side!

Marcus

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Vladimyr Burachynsky

Re: [ SPAM ] Re: academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

In reply to this post by Steve Smith

Marcus or to Steve,

Damn Good Call.

If you would not have uttered such a comment
I would not now have such a headache.
The threads have become confusing with everyone cutting and pasting chunks
with unclear attributions.
( could we get coloured highlights ?)
You have the advantage of seeing each other once in a while, I am blind
metaphorically . I plan on renewing my passport and attempting to travel
again. If it is cold I can Go.

So it is not simply the issue of distinct threads but also the appearance of
different view points.
A viewpoint does not prove a point no matter how much we wish to appear
clever. No matter how many "Likes " you get , you are never going to be
assured of truth.
No matter how often you run an experiment and achieve results either way you
will always be trapped in some inductive bubble.

Look now to the possibility that many view points may break the inductive /
recursion trap that infinite repetition could not.
The viewpoints act to increase the number of dimensions open to examination
not the precise static resolution adequate for measurement.
Imagine video versus still photography and then just add a dash of
TimeLapse and HyperLapse or Lemon , into the mixture and you now have such
a complex situation that , I get headaches. I am at a loss for language.

No one ever really wins arguments that may explain why we believe, our own
lies, first, when we speak them out loud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNwWOul4i9Y&sns=em
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ky6vgQfU24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKppuqN04Kc

These three videos all show the earth from different viewpoints some from
many points. Each appears to be a medium for a specific audience or
messages. Truth appears to span dimensions and it moves about.

Beneath every set of images lies another bigger reality. If we consider this
just for a few moments you would probably demand an explanation from me.

I don't have one yet, I won't pretend. I am also part of other networks and
get hit with strange stuff occasionally.
This net has the advantage of containing some very literate participants.
Very rare today.
vib

I wonder does this material belong to a new Zeitgeist ?
Man and machine?

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: January-16-15 3:05 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [ SPAM ] Re: academic fields whose practitioners
believe ...

On 1/16/15 12:59 PM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote:
>> It was wonderful the range of personal experience we were able to
>> bring to bear on this subject and the lack of guardedness with which
>> we were able to explore it given our diverse history.
> Another benefit of in-person meetings is that this list fails to
> actually deliver all mails!
I know... I only occasionally recognize that fact... I think Nick was the
first to notice a while back and suggested that it was a conspiracy against
him alone... which I also feel sometimes...

On the other hand, I find that in-person, there are usually at least two
parallel "threads" and while I can survey multiples, I can't really
participate in more than one effectively without seeming entirely ADD.
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> at St. John's College to unsubscribe
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Roger Critchlow-2

Re: academic fields whose practitioners believe ...

In reply to this post by Roger Critchlow-2

I was just pointing some others at this article and I found an author's reprint collection with links to commentary:

http://internal.psychology.illinois.edu/~acimpian/reprints/

As the Economist understates: "All this raises interesting and awkward questions."

-- rec --

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 6:52 PM, Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

Great article in Science this week:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6219/262.short

The more the practitioners of an academic field agree that "Being a top scholar of
[discipline] requires a special aptitude that just can’t be taught", the less successful women and african americans are in the field, as measured by the percentage of PhD's graduated. Measured across all disciplines and in competition with three other hypotheses.

-- rec --