a challenge for skeptics -- hidden H2 source would have to supply 36--216 kg H2 to make Rossi heat: Rich Murray 2011.01.18

[Rich Murray-2]

a challenge for skeptics -- hidden H2 source would have to supply
36--216 kg H2 to make Rossi heat: Rich Murray 2011.01.18

[ Rich Murray: "100 to 600 more than the sensitivity of the scale",
which may be 0.1 gm, gives 10 -- 60 gm/second ranges of H2 used --
36,000 -- 216,000 gm = 36 -- 216 kg H2 -- that would be a lot to deliver from a
hidden source... ]

" The first measurements Levi described were energy measurements to
determine the
input of energy inside the reactor and the output of energy of the
reactor. “I don't have
conclusive data on radiation but absolutely we have measured ~12 kW
(at steady state) of
energy produced with an input of about just 400 watts. I would say
this is the main result.
We have seen also this energy was not of chemical origin, by checking
the consumption
of hydrogen. There was no measurable hydrogen consumption, at least
with our mass 2
measurement.” By measuring with a very sensitive scale, within a
precision of a 10 th
of a gram, Levi measured the weight of the hydrogen bottle before and
after the experiment
“If the energy was of chemical origin you would have expected to
consume about 100 to
600 more than the sensitivity of the scale. You measure the bottle
before and after and
then you see in your measurements there was almost no hydrogen consumed.” "



http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MacyMspecificso.pdf

Macy, M., Specifics of Andrea Rossi's "Energy Catalyzer" Test,
University of Bologna, January 14, 2011.
2011, LENR-CANR.org.

Specifics of Andrea Rossi’s “Energy Catalyzer” Test,
University of Bologna, 1/14/2001

Marianne Macy

On January 14, 2011, Andrea Rossi submitted his “Energy Catalyzer”
reactor, which
burns hydrogen in a nickel catalyst, for examination by scientists at
the University of
Bologna and The INFN (Italian National Institute of Nuclear Physics).
The test was
organized by Dr. Giuseppe Levi of INFN and the University of Bologna
and was assisted
by other members of the physics and chemistry faculties. This result
was achieved
without the production of any measurable nuclear radiation. The
magnitude of this result
suggests that there is a viable energy technology that uses commonly
available materials,
that does not produce carbon dioxide, and that does not produce
radioactive waste and
will be economical to build.

The reactor used less than 1 gram of hydrogen, less than 1,000 W of
electricity to
convert 292 grams of water per minute at ~20°C into dry steam at
~101°C. The unit was
turned ON and began producing some steam in a few minutes, and once it
reached steady
state continued producing steam until it was turned OFF. The amount of
power required
to heat water 80°C and convert it to steam is approximately 12,000
watts. Dr. Levi and
his team will be producing a technical report detailing the design and
execution of their
evaluation.

A representative of the investment group stated that they were looking
to produce a
20 kW unit and that within two months they would make a public announcement. He
declared that their completed studies revealed a “huge, favorable
difference in numbers”
between the cost to produce the Rossi Catalyzer and other green
technologies. “We had a
similar demonstration six months ago with the same success we’ve had
today. We are
almost ready with the industrialized product, which we think is going
to be a revolution.
It is a totally green energy.” The representative offered that the
company was called
Defkalion Energy, named for the father of the Greco Roman empire, and
was based in
Athens.

Giuseppe Levi, PhD in nuclear physics at the University of Bologna and
who works at
INFN, offers exclusive comments on the test, which he deemed “an open
experiment for
physicists. The idea was like a conference: to tell everybody what was
going on and
eventually to start new research programs on that topic.”

The first measurements Levi described were energy measurements to determine the
input of energy inside the reactor and the output of energy of the
reactor. “I don't have
conclusive data on radiation but absolutely we have measured ~12 kW
(at steady state) of
energy produced with an input of about just 400 watts. I would say
this is the main result.
We have seen also this energy was not of chemical origin, by checking
the consumption
of hydrogen. There was no measurable hydrogen consumption, at least
with our mass 2
measurement.” By measuring with a very sensitive scale, within a
precision of a 10 th
of a gram, Levi measured the weight of the hydrogen bottle before and
after the experiment
“If the energy was of chemical origin you would have expected to
consume about 100 to
600 more than the sensitivity of the scale. You measure the bottle
before and after and
then you see in your measurements there was almost no hydrogen consumed.”

[ Rich Murray: "100 to 600 more than the sensitivity of the scale",
which may be 0.1 gm, gives 10 -- 60 gm/second ranges of H2 used --
36,000 -- 216,000 gm = 36 -- 216 kg H2 -- that would be a lot to deliver from a
hidden source... ]

The workings of the Rossi reactor was, Levi explained, unknown to them
because of
“industry secrets.” He said: “What we've done is to measure the water
in the flux and we
are heating and making steam for that water. We are measuring the water flux and
carefully checking that all the water was converted into steam, then
it is easy to calculate
power that was generated. You are measuring the power that was going
in the system by
quite a sensitive power meter. Initially the system started up and we
had 1 kW of input
and then we reduce the input to just 400 W. The output energy was
constant at about
12 kW.”

The flow rate, Levi continued, was measured with a high precision
scale. “The flow
rate was 146 g in 30 seconds. Using a simple measurement gives a
simple result. There
was a pump putting in a constant flux and what I have done is – with the reactor
completely off take measurements – we spent two weeks of the water that flowing
through the system to be certain of our calibration. After this
calibration period I have
checked that the pump was not touched and when we brought it here for
the experiment it
was giving the same quantity of water during all the experiment. The
water was coming
from an Edison well and the pump was putting it in the system. Then we
were releasing
the steam into the atmosphere; there was not a loop.”

To determine if the steam was coming out dry and at atmospheric
pressure, Professor
Gallatini, a specialist in Thermochemics and a former head of the
Chemical Society of
Italy, verified that all the water came out as steam. “There was no
water in the steam,”
Levi certified. “The outer temperature measured was 101° centigrade at
atmospheric
pressure.” The instrument he used was a Delta OHM # HD37AB1347 Indoor
Air Quality
Monitor. Gallantini inserted the probe inside the exit pipe with the steam.

Levi was asked: How did you compute the thermal energy production by the Energy
Catalyzer (ECat)?
He responded, “The calculation is very, very simple. Because you know
the number of
grams of water per second delivered to the ECat you know you must
raise the water to
100°C, this is the transient phase of operation. Once the water is at
100°C the energy is
used to make the water into steam. It takes 2272 joules per gram to
convert water at
100°C to steam. Because the ECat provided more energy the steam became hotter,
101°C. So our conservative estimate of the steady state thermal output
of the ECat,
neglecting thermal radiation and other losses, is just 2272 joules per
gram multiplied by
the 4.9 grams per second = 11, 057 joules per second or Watts. When
you realize that you
have to add the energy to raise the temperature of the water you get
by about 80°C and
the steam by another 1°C the total thermal power the ECat releasing is
about 12,400
Watts. These are not our refined estimate but they indicate that the
input electrical power
of 400 W produces using an amount of hydrogen less than a gram in a
couple hours of
operation we are seeing a system with a power gain = 12,400/400 = 31.”

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Sarbajit Roy (testing)]

Sorry for asking this, but how have you confirmed that the input water
temperature was 20DegC and not say 95DegC ? Instrumentation can be
manipulated.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Rich Murray <[hidden email]> wrote:

> a challenge for skeptics -- hidden H2 source would have to supply
> 36--216 kg H2 to make Rossi heat: Rich Murray 2011.01.18
>
> [ Rich Murray: "100 to 600 more than the sensitivity of the scale",
> which may be 0.1 gm, gives 10 -- 60 gm/second ranges of H2 used --
> 36,000 -- 216,000 gm = 36 -- 216 kg H2 -- that would be a lot to deliver from a
> hidden source... ]
>
> " The first measurements Levi described were energy measurements to
> determine the
> input of energy inside the reactor and the output of energy of the
> reactor. “I don't have
> conclusive data on radiation but absolutely we have measured ~12 kW
> (at steady state) of
> energy produced with an input of about just 400 watts. I would say
> this is the main result.
> We have seen also this energy was not of chemical origin, by checking
> the consumption
> of hydrogen. There was no measurable hydrogen consumption, at least
> with our mass 2
> measurement.” By measuring with a very sensitive scale, within a
> precision of a 10 th
> of a gram, Levi measured the weight of the hydrogen bottle before and
> after the experiment
> “If the energy was of chemical origin you would have expected to
> consume about 100 to
> 600 more than the sensitivity of the scale. You measure the bottle
> before and after and
> then you see in your measurements there was almost no hydrogen consumed.” "
>
>
>
> http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MacyMspecificso.pdf
>
> Macy, M., Specifics of Andrea Rossi's "Energy Catalyzer" Test,
> University of Bologna, January 14, 2011.
> 2011, LENR-CANR.org.
>
> Specifics of Andrea Rossi’s “Energy Catalyzer” Test,
> University of Bologna, 1/14/2001
>
> Marianne Macy
>
> On January 14, 2011, Andrea Rossi submitted his “Energy Catalyzer”
> reactor, which
> burns hydrogen in a nickel catalyst, for examination by scientists at
> the University of
> Bologna and The INFN (Italian National Institute of Nuclear Physics).
> The test was
> organized by Dr. Giuseppe Levi of INFN and the University of Bologna
> and was assisted
> by other members of the physics and chemistry faculties. This result
> was achieved
> without the production of any measurable nuclear radiation. The
> magnitude of this result
> suggests that there is a viable energy technology that uses commonly
> available materials,
> that does not produce carbon dioxide, and that does not produce
> radioactive waste and
> will be economical to build.
>
> The reactor used less than 1 gram of hydrogen, less than 1,000 W of
> electricity to
> convert 292 grams of water per minute at ~20°C into dry steam at
> ~101°C. The unit was
> turned ON and began producing some steam in a few minutes, and once it
> reached steady
> state continued producing steam until it was turned OFF. The amount of
> power required
> to heat water 80°C and convert it to steam is approximately 12,000
> watts. Dr. Levi and
> his team will be producing a technical report detailing the design and
> execution of their
> evaluation.
>
> A representative of the investment group stated that they were looking
> to produce a
> 20 kW unit and that within two months they would make a public announcement. He
> declared that their completed studies revealed a “huge, favorable
> difference in numbers”
> between the cost to produce the Rossi Catalyzer and other green
> technologies. “We had a
> similar demonstration six months ago with the same success we’ve had
> today. We are
> almost ready with the industrialized product, which we think is going
> to be a revolution.
> It is a totally green energy.” The representative offered that the
> company was called
> Defkalion Energy, named for the father of the Greco Roman empire, and
> was based in
> Athens.
>
> Giuseppe Levi, PhD in nuclear physics at the University of Bologna and
> who works at
> INFN, offers exclusive comments on the test, which he deemed “an open
> experiment for
> physicists. The idea was like a conference: to tell everybody what was
> going on and
> eventually to start new research programs on that topic.”
>
> The first measurements Levi described were energy measurements to determine the
> input of energy inside the reactor and the output of energy of the
> reactor. “I don't have
> conclusive data on radiation but absolutely we have measured ~12 kW
> (at steady state) of
> energy produced with an input of about just 400 watts. I would say
> this is the main result.
> We have seen also this energy was not of chemical origin, by checking
> the consumption
> of hydrogen. There was no measurable hydrogen consumption, at least
> with our mass 2
> measurement.” By measuring with a very sensitive scale, within a
> precision of a 10 th
> of a gram, Levi measured the weight of the hydrogen bottle before and
> after the experiment
> “If the energy was of chemical origin you would have expected to
> consume about 100 to
> 600 more than the sensitivity of the scale. You measure the bottle
> before and after and
> then you see in your measurements there was almost no hydrogen consumed.”
>
> [ Rich Murray: "100 to 600 more than the sensitivity of the scale",
> which may be 0.1 gm, gives 10 -- 60 gm/second ranges of H2 used --
> 36,000 -- 216,000 gm = 36 -- 216 kg H2 -- that would be a lot to deliver from a
> hidden source... ]
>
> The workings of the Rossi reactor was, Levi explained, unknown to them
> because of
> “industry secrets.” He said: “What we've done is to measure the water
> in the flux and we
> are heating and making steam for that water. We are measuring the water flux and
> carefully checking that all the water was converted into steam, then
> it is easy to calculate
> power that was generated. You are measuring the power that was going
> in the system by
> quite a sensitive power meter. Initially the system started up and we
> had 1 kW of input
> and then we reduce the input to just 400 W. The output energy was
> constant at about
> 12 kW.”
>
> The flow rate, Levi continued, was measured with a high precision
> scale. “The flow
> rate was 146 g in 30 seconds. Using a simple measurement gives a
> simple result. There
> was a pump putting in a constant flux and what I have done is – with the reactor
> completely off take measurements – we spent two weeks of the water that flowing
> through the system to be certain of our calibration. After this
> calibration period I have
> checked that the pump was not touched and when we brought it here for
> the experiment it
> was giving the same quantity of water during all the experiment. The
> water was coming
> from an Edison well and the pump was putting it in the system. Then we
> were releasing
> the steam into the atmosphere; there was not a loop.”
>
> To determine if the steam was coming out dry and at atmospheric
> pressure, Professor
> Gallatini, a specialist in Thermochemics and a former head of the
> Chemical Society of
> Italy, verified that all the water came out as steam. “There was no
> water in the steam,”
> Levi certified. “The outer temperature measured was 101° centigrade at
> atmospheric
> pressure.” The instrument he used was a Delta OHM # HD37AB1347 Indoor
> Air Quality
> Monitor. Gallantini inserted the probe inside the exit pipe with the steam.
>
> Levi was asked: How did you compute the thermal energy production by the Energy
> Catalyzer (ECat)?
> He responded, “The calculation is very, very simple. Because you know
> the number of
> grams of water per second delivered to the ECat you know you must
> raise the water to
> 100°C, this is the transient phase of operation. Once the water is at
> 100°C the energy is
> used to make the water into steam. It takes 2272 joules per gram to
> convert water at
> 100°C to steam. Because the ECat provided more energy the steam became hotter,
> 101°C. So our conservative estimate of the steady state thermal output
> of the ECat,
> neglecting thermal radiation and other losses, is just 2272 joules per
> gram multiplied by
> the 4.9 grams per second = 11, 057 joules per second or Watts. When
> you realize that you
> have to add the energy to raise the temperature of the water you get
> by about 80°C and
> the steam by another 1°C the total thermal power the ECat releasing is
> about 12,400
> Watts. These are not our refined estimate but they indicate that the
> input electrical power
> of 400 W produces using an amount of hydrogen less than a gram in a
> couple hours of
> operation we are seeing a system with a power gain = 12,400/400 = 31.”
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org