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You Have 0 Friends

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Jochen Fromm-4

You Have 0 Friends

Stan, Kyle, Cartman and the rest got sucked
into Facebook...some more literally than others.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/267112/

-J.

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Alfredo Covaleda Vélez

Re: You Have 0 Friends

So funny.

My Facebook profile has more friends than me. Isn't is ridiculous?

Alfredo

2010/9/25 Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]>

Stan, Kyle, Cartman and the rest got sucked into Facebook...some more literally than others. http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/267112/

-J.

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

--
Alfredo Covaleda Vélez
Ingeniero Agrónomo
Celulares:
+57 311 213 7829
+57 301 691 6811
-------------------------------
Bogotá D.C.
-------------------------------
http://www.loslibrosusados.com
http://www.agbioinfo.com
http://sites.google.com/site/iqnegativo/
http://autorco.pbworks.com
http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/agbioinfo/
http://iqnegativo.blogspot.com
http://orbita.starmedia.com/~aldocova/
-------------------------------

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Jochen Fromm-4

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

No, it is not ridiculuos, it is serious.
I think the Facebook phenomenon rises
a number of interesting questions:
Who are you? What is the core of a
person? Why is social media so successful?
When does a company become evil?

Social media and social networks are
a hot trend, maybe because people feel
increasingly isolated in a digital and
urbanized world. Erich Fromm says in
"The Art of Loving": "The deepest need
of man is to overcome his separateness,
to leave the prison of his aloneness."
All social networks exploit this need.
For example a social network for books
like GoodReads or Shelfari connects you
to readers with similar interests.
Facebook is special. It claims to connect
you to the people you already know.
The problem is:

a) You probably have multiple circles of
friends, and these friends belong to different
areas: family, job, hobby, sports, etc.
Facebook allows you only to have one
circle of friends and one single identity,
your physical identity characterized by
your real name and your real photo. Since
the identity forms the core of a person,
it reduces you to your physical appearance.
If you are not good looking or if you have
no friends, like the shy nerdy student
Kip Drordy in the video, then Facebook
classifies you as a loser. It denies you
to be what you want to be, but the declaration
of independence says: "all Men are created
equal, they are endowed [..] with certain
unalienable Rights, among these are Life,
Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
It does not mention the right to have a
Facebook profile.

b) To connect you to your friends, a
company must own your private data.
Facebook forces you to reveal your
private data, to give up your privacy. Would
you tell the government who your friends
are, where you have been, what you are doing?
Then why do you tell it to a private company?
Should our private life and our private data
belong to a company at all? The people who
think Facebook is evil say no. This is similar
to the question of Microsoft a few years ago:
should our Operating System, the Operating
System of our computers, belong to a company?
The people who think Microsoft is evil say no.

Contrary to Twitter, Facebook forces
you to give up your privacy:
"We will connect you to your friends
(if you give us your private data)".
and reduces you to your physical appearance
"We will connect you to your friends
(if you tell us what you are doing
right now and how you look like)"
That's why Facebook is evil.

-J.

----- Original Message -----
From: Alfredo Covaleda
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends

So funny.

My Facebook profile has more friends than me. Isn't is ridiculous?

Alfredo

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Pieter Steenekamp

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you
accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you accuse
Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, simply
don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then you die, so
I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to part with my
dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least you don't die.

Pieter

On 2010/09/26 09:03 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:

> No, it is not ridiculuos, it is serious.
> I think the Facebook phenomenon rises a number of interesting questions:
> Who are you? What is the core of a person? Why is social media so
> successful?
> When does a company become evil?
>
> Social media and social networks are
> a hot trend, maybe because people feel
> increasingly isolated in a digital and
> urbanized world. Erich Fromm says in "The Art of Loving": "The deepest
> need of man is to overcome his separateness, to leave the prison of
> his aloneness." All social networks exploit this need.
> For example a social network for books like GoodReads or Shelfari
> connects you to readers with similar interests.
> Facebook is special. It claims to connect
> you to the people you already know.
> The problem is:
>
> a) You probably have multiple circles of
> friends, and these friends belong to different
> areas: family, job, hobby, sports, etc.
> Facebook allows you only to have one
> circle of friends and one single identity, your physical identity
> characterized by your real name and your real photo. Since the
> identity forms the core of a person, it reduces you to your physical
> appearance.
> If you are not good looking or if you have
> no friends, like the shy nerdy student Kip Drordy in the video, then
> Facebook classifies you as a loser. It denies you
> to be what you want to be, but the declaration
> of independence says: "all Men are created equal, they are endowed
> [..] with certain unalienable Rights, among these are Life, Liberty
> and the pursuit of Happiness."
> It does not mention the right to have a
> Facebook profile.
>
> b) To connect you to your friends, a company must own your private data.
> Facebook forces you to reveal your private data, to give up your
> privacy. Would
> you tell the government who your friends
> are, where you have been, what you are doing?
> Then why do you tell it to a private company?
> Should our private life and our private data belong to a company at
> all? The people who think Facebook is evil say no. This is similar to
> the question of Microsoft a few years ago: should our Operating
> System, the Operating System of our computers, belong to a company?
> The people who think Microsoft is evil say no.
>
> Contrary to Twitter, Facebook forces you to give up your privacy: "We
> will connect you to your friends
> (if you give us your private data)".
> and reduces you to your physical appearance
> "We will connect you to your friends
> (if you tell us what you are doing
> right now and how you look like)"
> That's why Facebook is evil.
>
> -J.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfredo Covaleda To: The Friday
> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Saturday, September 25,
> 2010 10:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends
>
> So funny.
>
> My Facebook profile has more friends than me. Isn't is ridiculous?
>
> Alfredo
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

Eric Charles

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-4

This seems on topic:
I got an automated call the other day from a company telling me that there is a recall on one of their products. More specifically, records from my grocery store (presumably data stored in connection with my rewards card) indicated that I had purchased their product between 3 and 18 months previously. It was a little cool, and a little creepy at the same time.

Eric

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 07:23 AM, Pieter Steenekamp <[hidden email]> wrote:

  If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you 
accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you accuse 
Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, simply 
don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then you die, so 
I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to part with my 
dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least you don't die.

Pieter

On 2010/09/26 09:03 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
> No, it is not ridiculuos, it is serious.
> I think the Facebook phenomenon rises a number of interesting questions:
> Who are you? What is the core of a person? Why is social media so 
> successful?
> When does a company become evil?
>
> Social media and social networks are
> a hot trend, maybe because people feel
> increasingly isolated in a digital and
> urbanized world. Erich Fromm says in "The Art of Loving":
"The deepest 
> need of man is to overcome his separateness, to leave the prison of 
> his aloneness." All social networks exploit this need.
> For example a social network for books like GoodReads or Shelfari 
> connects you to readers with similar interests.
> Facebook is special. It claims to connect
> you to the people you already know.
> The problem is:
>
> a) You probably have multiple circles of
> friends, and these friends belong to different
> areas: family, job, hobby, sports, etc.
> Facebook allows you only to have one
> circle of friends and one single identity, your physical identity 
> characterized by your real name and your real photo. Since the 
> identity forms the core of a person, it reduces you to your physical 
> appearance.
> If you are not good looking or if you have
> no friends, like the shy nerdy student Kip Drordy in the video, then 
> Facebook classifies you as a loser. It denies you
> to be what you want to be, but the declaration
> of independence says: "all Men are created equal, they are endowed 
> [..] with certain unalienable Rights, among these are Life, Liberty 
> and the pursuit of Happiness."
> It does not mention the right to have a
> Facebook profile.
>
> b) To connect you to your friends, a company must own your private
data.
> Facebook forces you to reveal your private data, to give up your 
> privacy. Would
> you tell the government who your friends
> are, where you have been, what you are doing?
> Then why do you tell it to a private company?
> Should our private life and our private data belong to a company at 
> all? The people who think Facebook is evil say no. This is similar to 
> the question of Microsoft a few years ago: should our Operating 
> System, the Operating System of our computers, belong to a company? 
> The people who think Microsoft is evil say no.
>
> Contrary to Twitter, Facebook forces you to give up your privacy: "We 
> will connect you to your friends
> (if you give us your private data)".
> and reduces you to your physical appearance
> "We will connect you to your friends
> (if you tell us what you are doing
> right now and how you look like)"
> That's why Facebook is evil.
>
> -J.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfredo Covaleda To: The Friday 
> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Saturday, September 25, 
> 2010 10:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends
>
> So funny.
>
> My Facebook profile has more friends than me. Isn't is ridiculous?
>
> Alfredo
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601

Pamela McCorduck

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

In reply to this post by Pieter Steenekamp

I'd like to take exception to a few things Jochen says. I am on
Facebook for professional reasons (sigh--publishers take this very
seriously, even if the rest of us can't). I currently have a quite
doctored picture up of me (Doug can attest) and other friends have
shots of their dogs, or Richard Wagner, instead of themselves. We do
it for fun, because we can. No requirement to have a passport picture
up.

Facebook knows very little about me that can't be got easily from
"Who's Who" or other sources. I want it that way.

That said, I can't help comparing it to another virtual community I've
belonged to for more than twenty years. It's the WELL, founded by
Stewart Brand and his friends, and at first consisting of a bunch of
Deadheads and other former hippies. What the WELL has permitted over
the years is substantive conversations--banter too, but substantive
conversations--where you begin to detect real personalities with real
interests, rounded and appealing (or appalling, as the case might be).
This membership has led from virtual friendships to genuine
friendships--I'll go to the theater this afternoon with one such
friend; another such is coming to NYC next week for a visit; etc., etc.

Facebook's unwieldy size and lack of discrimination among
"friends" (with that I agree completely) is unlikely to allow this to
happen, especially since the technology is set up for soundbites, not
authentic conversations.

It's not evil, but it's banal.

Pamela

On Sep 26, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:

> If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you
> accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you
> accuse Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it,
> simply don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then
> you die, so I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to
> part with my dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least
> you don't die.
>
> Pieter
>
> On 2010/09/26 09:03 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
>> No, it is not ridiculuos, it is serious.
>> I think the Facebook phenomenon rises a number of interesting
>> questions:
>> Who are you? What is the core of a person? Why is social media so
>> successful?
>> When does a company become evil?
>>
>> Social media and social networks are
>> a hot trend, maybe because people feel
>> increasingly isolated in a digital and
>> urbanized world. Erich Fromm says in "The Art of Loving": "The
>> deepest need of man is to overcome his separateness, to leave the
>> prison of his aloneness." All social networks exploit this need.
>> For example a social network for books like GoodReads or Shelfari
>> connects you to readers with similar interests.
>> Facebook is special. It claims to connect
>> you to the people you already know.
>> The problem is:
>>
>> a) You probably have multiple circles of
>> friends, and these friends belong to different
>> areas: family, job, hobby, sports, etc.
>> Facebook allows you only to have one
>> circle of friends and one single identity, your physical identity
>> characterized by your real name and your real photo. Since the
>> identity forms the core of a person, it reduces you to your
>> physical appearance.
>> If you are not good looking or if you have
>> no friends, like the shy nerdy student Kip Drordy in the video,
>> then Facebook classifies you as a loser. It denies you
>> to be what you want to be, but the declaration
>> of independence says: "all Men are created equal, they are endowed
>> [..] with certain unalienable Rights, among these are Life, Liberty
>> and the pursuit of Happiness."
>> It does not mention the right to have a
>> Facebook profile.
>>
>> b) To connect you to your friends, a company must own your private
>> data.
>> Facebook forces you to reveal your private data, to give up your
>> privacy. Would
>> you tell the government who your friends
>> are, where you have been, what you are doing?
>> Then why do you tell it to a private company?
>> Should our private life and our private data belong to a company at
>> all? The people who think Facebook is evil say no. This is similar
>> to the question of Microsoft a few years ago: should our Operating
>> System, the Operating System of our computers, belong to a company?
>> The people who think Microsoft is evil say no.
>>
>> Contrary to Twitter, Facebook forces you to give up your privacy:
>> "We will connect you to your friends
>> (if you give us your private data)".
>> and reduces you to your physical appearance
>> "We will connect you to your friends
>> (if you tell us what you are doing
>> right now and how you look like)"
>> That's why Facebook is evil.
>>
>> -J.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfredo Covaleda To: The Friday
>> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Saturday, September
>> 25, 2010 10:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends
>>
>> So funny.
>>
>> My Facebook profile has more friends than me. Isn't is ridiculous?
>>
>> Alfredo
>>
>>
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

Nick Thompson

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

In reply to this post by Eric Charles

Er….. um ……. What was the product?

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of ERIC P. CHARLES
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 7:50 AM
To: Pieter Steenekamp
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

  If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you

accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you accuse

Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, simply

don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then you die, so

I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to part with my

dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least you don't die.

Pieter

On 2010/09/26 09:03 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:

> No, it is not ridiculuos, it is serious.

> I think the Facebook phenomenon rises a number of interesting questions:

> Who are you? What is the core of a person? Why is social media so

> successful?

> When does a company become evil?

> Social media and social networks are

> a hot trend, maybe because people feel

> increasingly isolated in a digital and

> urbanized world. Erich Fromm says in "The Art of Loving":

"The deepest

> need of man is to overcome his separateness, to leave the prison of

> his aloneness." All social networks exploit this need.

> For example a social network for books like GoodReads or Shelfari

> connects you to readers with similar interests.

> Facebook is special. It claims to connect

> you to the people you already know.

> The problem is:

> a) You probably have multiple circles of

> friends, and these friends belong to different

> areas: family, job, hobby, sports, etc.

> Facebook allows you only to have one

> circle of friends and one single identity, your physical identity

> characterized by your real name and your real photo. Since the

> identity forms the core of a person, it reduces you to your physical

> appearance.

> If you are not good looking or if you have

> no friends, like the shy nerdy student Kip Drordy in the video, then

> Facebook classifies you as a loser. It denies you

> to be what you want to be, but the declaration

> of independence says: "all Men are created equal, they are endowed

> [..] with certain unalienable Rights, among these are Life, Liberty

> and the pursuit of Happiness."

> It does not mention the right to have a

> Facebook profile.

> b) To connect you to your friends, a company must own your private

data.

> Facebook forces you to reveal your private data, to give up your

> privacy. Would

> you tell the government who your friends

> are, where you have been, what you are doing?

> Then why do you tell it to a private company?

> Should our private life and our private data belong to a company at

> all? The people who think Facebook is evil say no. This is similar to

> the question of Microsoft a few years ago: should our Operating

> System, the Operating System of our computers, belong to a company?

> The people who think Microsoft is evil say no.

> Contrary to Twitter, Facebook forces you to give up your privacy: "We

> will connect you to your friends

> (if you give us your private data)".

> and reduces you to your physical appearance

> "We will connect you to your friends

> (if you tell us what you are doing

> right now and how you look like)"

> That's why Facebook is evil.

> -J.

> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfredo Covaleda To: The Friday

> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Saturday, September 25,

> 2010 10:58 PM

> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends

> So funny.

> My Facebook profile has more friends than me. Isn't is ridiculous?

> Alfredo

> ============================================================

> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601

Douglas Roberts-2

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

Viagra. There was this one batch sold only in grocery store pharmacies several months ago was not quite up to snuff. They later discovered the problem: it had been stored next to the soft ice cream dispenser. Pfizer, the manufacturer, made the hard decision to to do the recall...

--Doug

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Er….. um ……. What was the product?

  If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you

accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you accuse

Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, simply

don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then you die, so

I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to part with my

dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least you don't die.

Pieter

On 2010/09/26 09:03 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:

> No, it is not ridiculuos, it is serious.

> I think the Facebook phenomenon rises a number of interesting questions:

> Who are you? What is the core of a person? Why is social media so

> successful?

> When does a company become evil?

> Social media and social networks are

> a hot trend, maybe because people feel

> increasingly isolated in a digital and

> urbanized world. Erich Fromm says in "The Art of Loving":

"The deepest

> need of man is to overcome his separateness, to leave the prison of

> his aloneness." All social networks exploit this need.

> For example a social network for books like GoodReads or Shelfari

> connects you to readers with similar interests.

> Facebook is special. It claims to connect

> you to the people you already know.

> The problem is:

> a) You probably have multiple circles of

> friends, and these friends belong to different

> areas: family, job, hobby, sports, etc.

> Facebook allows you only to have one

> circle of friends and one single identity, your physical identity

> characterized by your real name and your real photo. Since the

> identity forms the core of a person, it reduces you to your physical

> appearance.

> If you are not good looking or if you have

> no friends, like the shy nerdy student Kip Drordy in the video, then

> Facebook classifies you as a loser. It denies you

> to be what you want to be, but the declaration

> of independence says: "all Men are created equal, they are endowed

> [..] with certain unalienable Rights, among these are Life, Liberty

> and the pursuit of Happiness."

> It does not mention the right to have a

> Facebook profile.

> b) To connect you to your friends, a company must own your private

data.

> Facebook forces you to reveal your private data, to give up your

> privacy. Would

> you tell the government who your friends

> are, where you have been, what you are doing?

> Then why do you tell it to a private company?

> Should our private life and our private data belong to a company at

> all? The people who think Facebook is evil say no. This is similar to

> the question of Microsoft a few years ago: should our Operating

> System, the Operating System of our computers, belong to a company?

> The people who think Microsoft is evil say no.

> Contrary to Twitter, Facebook forces you to give up your privacy: "We

> will connect you to your friends

> (if you give us your private data)".

> and reduces you to your physical appearance

> "We will connect you to your friends

> (if you tell us what you are doing

> right now and how you look like)"

> That's why Facebook is evil.

> -J.

> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfredo Covaleda To: The Friday

> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Saturday, September 25,

> 2010 10:58 PM

> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends

> So funny.

> My Facebook profile has more friends than me. Isn't is ridiculous?

> Alfredo

> ============================================================

> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601

Nick Thompson

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

In reply to this post by Pamela McCorduck

Pamela,

Banal IS evil. Hmm! Or is it the other way around.

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Pamela McCorduck
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 8:13 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

I'd like to take exception to a few things Jochen says. I am on Facebook for
professional reasons (sigh--publishers take this very seriously, even if the
rest of us can't). I currently have a quite doctored picture up of me (Doug
can attest) and other friends have shots of their dogs, or Richard Wagner,
instead of themselves. We do it for fun, because we can. No requirement to
have a passport picture up.

Facebook knows very little about me that can't be got easily from "Who's
Who" or other sources. I want it that way.

That said, I can't help comparing it to another virtual community I've
belonged to for more than twenty years. It's the WELL, founded by Stewart
Brand and his friends, and at first consisting of a bunch of Deadheads and
other former hippies. What the WELL has permitted over the years is
substantive conversations--banter too, but substantive conversations--where
you begin to detect real personalities with real interests, rounded and
appealing (or appalling, as the case might be).
This membership has led from virtual friendships to genuine
friendships--I'll go to the theater this afternoon with one such friend;
another such is coming to NYC next week for a visit; etc., etc.

Facebook's unwieldy size and lack of discrimination among "friends" (with
that I agree completely) is unlikely to allow this to happen, especially
since the technology is set up for soundbites, not authentic conversations.

It's not evil, but it's banal.

Pamela

On Sep 26, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:

> If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you
> accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you
> accuse Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it,
> simply don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then
> you die, so I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to
> part with my dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least
> you don't die.
>
> Pieter
>
> On 2010/09/26 09:03 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
>> No, it is not ridiculuos, it is serious.
>> I think the Facebook phenomenon rises a number of interesting
>> questions:
>> Who are you? What is the core of a person? Why is social media so
>> successful?
>> When does a company become evil?
>>
>> Social media and social networks are
>> a hot trend, maybe because people feel increasingly isolated in a
>> digital and urbanized world. Erich Fromm says in "The Art of Loving":
>> "The deepest need of man is to overcome his separateness, to leave
>> the prison of his aloneness." All social networks exploit this need.
>> For example a social network for books like GoodReads or Shelfari
>> connects you to readers with similar interests.
>> Facebook is special. It claims to connect you to the people you
>> already know.
>> The problem is:
>>
>> a) You probably have multiple circles of friends, and these friends
>> belong to different
>> areas: family, job, hobby, sports, etc.
>> Facebook allows you only to have one
>> circle of friends and one single identity, your physical identity
>> characterized by your real name and your real photo. Since the
>> identity forms the core of a person, it reduces you to your physical
>> appearance.
>> If you are not good looking or if you have no friends, like the shy
>> nerdy student Kip Drordy in the video, then Facebook classifies you
>> as a loser. It denies you to be what you want to be, but the
>> declaration of independence says: "all Men are created equal, they
>> are endowed [..] with certain unalienable Rights, among these are
>> Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
>> It does not mention the right to have a Facebook profile.
>>
>> b) To connect you to your friends, a company must own your private
>> data.
>> Facebook forces you to reveal your private data, to give up your
>> privacy. Would you tell the government who your friends are, where
>> you have been, what you are doing?
>> Then why do you tell it to a private company?
>> Should our private life and our private data belong to a company at
>> all? The people who think Facebook is evil say no. This is similar to
>> the question of Microsoft a few years ago: should our Operating
>> System, the Operating System of our computers, belong to a company?
>> The people who think Microsoft is evil say no.
>>
>> Contrary to Twitter, Facebook forces you to give up your privacy:
>> "We will connect you to your friends
>> (if you give us your private data)".
>> and reduces you to your physical appearance "We will connect you to
>> your friends (if you tell us what you are doing right now and how you
>> look like)"
>> That's why Facebook is evil.
>>
>> -J.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfredo Covaleda To: The Friday
>> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Saturday, September 25,
>> 2010 10:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends
>>
>> So funny.
>>
>> My Facebook profile has more friends than me. Isn't is ridiculous?
>>
>> Alfredo
>>
>>
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at
>> cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
>> http://www.friam.org
>>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
> http://www.friam.org
>

============================================================
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
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Eric Charles

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

In reply to this post by Eric Charles

Not sure why it matters, but some specific brand of Similac baby formula... something about a small chance of bugs parts being in the mix. We haven't used any formula in over 6 months, so it's a moot point. If we had the bad stuff, the baby drank it already. Just more protein I guess.

Eric

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 11:22 AM, "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Er….. um ……. What was the product?

If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you

accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you accuse

Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, simply

don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then you die, so

I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to part with my

dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least you don't die.

Pieter

On 2010/09/26 09:03 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:

> No, it is not ridiculuos, it is serious.

> I think the Facebook phenomenon rises a number of interesting questions:

> Who are you? What is the core of a person? Why is social media so

> successful?

> When does a company become evil?

> Social media and social networks are

> a hot trend, maybe because people feel

> increasingly isolated in a digital and

> urbanized world. Erich Fromm says in "The Art of Loving":

"The deepest

> need of man is to overcome his separateness, to leave the prison of

> his aloneness." All social networks exploit this need.

> For example a social network for books like GoodReads or Shelfari

> connects you to readers with similar interests.

> Facebook is special. It claims to connect

> you to the people you already know.

> The problem is:

> a) You probably have multiple circles of

> friends, and these friends belong to different

> areas: family, job, hobby, sports, etc.

> Facebook allows you only to have one

> circle of friends and one single identity, your physical identity

> characterized by your real name and your real photo. Since the

> identity forms the core of a person, it reduces you to your physical

> appearance.

> If you are not good looking or if you have

> no friends, like the shy nerdy student Kip Drordy in the video, then

> Facebook classifies you as a loser. It denies you

> to be what you want to be, but the declaration

> of independence says: "all Men are created equal, they are endowed

> [..] with certain unalienable Rights, among these are Life, Liberty

> and the pursuit of Happiness."

> It does not mention the right to have a

> Facebook profile.

> b) To connect you to your friends, a company must own your
private

data.

> Facebook forces you to reveal your private data, to give up your

> privacy. Would

> you tell the government who your friends

> are, where you have been, what you are doing?

> Then why do you tell it to a private company?

> Should our private life and our private data belong to a company at

> all? The people who think Facebook is evil say no. This is similar to

> the question of Microsoft a few years ago: should our Operating

> System, the Operating System of our computers, belong to a company?

> The people who think Microsoft is evil say no.

> Contrary to Twitter, Facebook forces you to give up your privacy: "We

> will connect you to your friends

> (if you give us your private data)".

> and reduces you to your physical appearance

> "We will connect you to your friends

> (if you tell us what you are doing

> right now and how you look like)"

> That's why Facebook is evil.

> -J.

> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfredo Covaleda To: The Friday

> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Saturday, September 25,

> 2010 10:58 PM

> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends

> So funny.

> My Facebook profile has more friends than me. Isn't is ridiculous?

> Alfredo

> ============================================================

> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at <a href="http://www.friam.org"
onclick="window.open('http://www.friam.org');return
false;">http://www.friam.org

============================================================

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at <a href="http://www.friam.org"
onclick="window.open('http://www.friam.org');return
false;">http://www.friam.org

Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601

Jochen Fromm-4

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

In reply to this post by Pieter Steenekamp

I admit that's a good point. I don't accuse
Facebook of forcing anyone to join them,
it doesn't do this yet. But they try to force
users to stay there once they have joined. Many
users are lured in, or join out of curiosity, but
Facebook doesn't let them out again. That's evil,
especially because the high number of users
is a key element in their advertising strategy.

Another problem is that some data of your friends
- photos, videos, or information about events - may
be inaccessible for you if you don't join. Information
is no longer freely available on the internet. Finally
all the buzz generated around Facebook suggests
that it is a wonderful place. It is not - only if you
have something to sell. The buzz is generated
partly because the media itself is involved in
it - many journalists and newspapers have
an account themselves.

Imagine the language we speak would belong
to a company. Every 5 years the company would
invent a new version of the language with
plenty of new words, and every time we would
have to learn the new words and rules (and print
new books). The language we speak belongs to us.
Our private life, too. The Facebook operators
don't violate privacy occasionaly, it is their
core business to violate privacy. People should
be aware of this.

-J.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pieter Steenekamp" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

> If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you
> accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you accuse
> Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, simply
> don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then you die, so
> I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to part with my
> dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least you don't die.
>
> Pieter
>

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Alfredo Covaleda Vélez

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

Using Facebook implies the same risks that we all have in other social scenarios and also offers possibilities to do positive things.

Facebook has been used for criminals to select victims to rob and even to kill them. Gangs of boys have used facebook to agree fights. Boys of schools have used Facebook to harass other boys of the class. Facebook has been used to show anger and hate against personalities and ideas. Unfortunately all this things and many others have occurred in my country using Facebook but all these things occur worldwide. But facebook is used normally to interact in a positive way with others. I don't like Facebook, but Facebook it self is not guilty of the crimes or the inappropriate behaviors. Facebook is not the main reason of the joy when people have fun. Within or without Facebook humans will continue acting like humans.... unfortunatelly.

Alfredo

2010/9/26 Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]>

I admit that's a good point. I don't accuse Facebook of forcing anyone to join them,
it doesn't do this yet. But they try to force users to stay there once they have joined. Many users are lured in, or join out of curiosity, but Facebook doesn't let them out again. That's evil,
especially because the high number of users
is a key element in their advertising strategy.

Another problem is that some data of your friends - photos, videos, or information about events - may be inaccessible for you if you don't join. Information is no longer freely available on the internet. Finally all the buzz generated around Facebook suggests that it is a wonderful place. It is not - only if you
have something to sell. The buzz is generated partly because the media itself is involved in it - many journalists and newspapers have an account themselves.
Imagine the language we speak would belong
to a company. Every 5 years the company would invent a new version of the language with plenty of new words, and every time we would
have to learn the new words and rules (and print new books). The language we speak belongs to us.
Our private life, too. The Facebook operators don't violate privacy occasionaly, it is their core business to violate privacy. People should be aware of this.

-J.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Pieter Steenekamp" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you accuse Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, simply don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then you die, so I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to part with my dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least you don't die.

Pieter

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Pieter Steenekamp

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-4

We know and agree what Facebook's business model is: they do their
utmost to get more and more people to join and then they use all the
private stuff to target very focused adverts. Then there is also a
natural tendency for the rich to become richer (Epstein and Axtell's
"Sugarscape) and more powerful and then to abuse their money and power.

My question is: how do you know when this is good or bad for society.
Well, I don't argue that the extreme of this is evil, but where is the
extreme? And further, what is a good way to keep the rich and powerful
in check? Is it good to regulate it, and to what extent do you regulate
it? If we regulate it, how do we prevent the regulations from getting
out of hand and limit our freedom too much? When are regulations
unnecessary and is it good enough to just tell everybody about the
"evil" things they do?

Pieter

On 2010/09/26 09:07 PM, Jochen Fromm wrote:

> I admit that's a good point. I don't accuse Facebook of forcing anyone
> to join them,
> it doesn't do this yet. But they try to force users to stay there once
> they have joined. Many users are lured in, or join out of curiosity,
> but Facebook doesn't let them out again. That's evil,
> especially because the high number of users
> is a key element in their advertising strategy.
>
> Another problem is that some data of your friends - photos, videos, or
> information about events - may be inaccessible for you if you don't
> join. Information is no longer freely available on the internet.
> Finally all the buzz generated around Facebook suggests that it is a
> wonderful place. It is not - only if you
> have something to sell. The buzz is generated partly because the media
> itself is involved in it - many journalists and newspapers have an
> account themselves.
> Imagine the language we speak would belong
> to a company. Every 5 years the company would invent a new version of
> the language with plenty of new words, and every time we would
> have to learn the new words and rules (and print new books). The
> language we speak belongs to us.
> Our private life, too. The Facebook operators don't violate privacy
> occasionaly, it is their core business to violate privacy. People
> should be aware of this.
>
> -J.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pieter Steenekamp"
> <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]
>
>
>> If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you
>> accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you
>> accuse Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it,
>> simply don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then
>> you die, so I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to
>> part with my dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least
>> you don't die.
>>
>> Pieter
>>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

Eric Charles

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-4

Of course, the question is really something more like: What is a good way to keep the rich and powerful in check... except the obvious way of having an educated populace?

Eric

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 03:46 AM, Pieter Steenekamp <[hidden email]> wrote:

  We know and agree what Facebook's business model is: they do their 
utmost to get more and more people to join and then they use all the 
private stuff to target very focused adverts. Then there is also a 
natural tendency for the rich to become richer (Epstein and Axtell's 
"Sugarscape) and more powerful and then to abuse their money and
power.

My question is: how do you know when this is good or bad for society. 
Well, I don't argue that the extreme of this is evil, but where is the 
extreme? And further, what is a good way to keep the rich and powerful 
in check? Is it good to regulate it, and to what extent do you regulate 
it? If we regulate it, how do we prevent the regulations from getting 
out of hand and limit our freedom too much? When are regulations 
unnecessary and is it good enough to just tell everybody about the 
"evil" things they do?

Pieter

On 2010/09/26 09:07 PM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
> I admit that's a good point. I don't accuse Facebook of forcing anyone 
> to join them,
> it doesn't do this yet. But they try to force users to stay there once 
> they have joined. Many users are lured in, or join out of curiosity, 
> but Facebook doesn't let them out again. That's evil,
> especially because the high number of users
> is a key element in their advertising strategy.
>
> Another problem is that some data of your friends - photos, videos, or 
> information about events - may be inaccessible for you if you don't 
> join. Information is no longer freely available on the internet. 
> Finally all the buzz generated around Facebook suggests that it is a 
> wonderful place. It is not - only if you
> have something to sell. The buzz is generated partly because the media 
> itself is involved in it - many journalists and newspapers have an 
> account themselves.
> Imagine the language we speak would belong
> to a company. Every 5 years the company would invent a new version of 
> the language with plenty of new words, and every time we would
> have to learn the new words and rules (and print new books). The 
> language we speak belongs to us.
> Our private life, too. The Facebook operators don't violate privacy 
> occasionaly, it is their core business to violate privacy. People 
> should be aware of this.
>
> -J.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pieter Steenekamp" 
> <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]
>
>
>  If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you 
> accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you 
> accuse Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, 
> simply don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then 
> you die, so I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to 
> part with my dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least 
> you don't die.
>
> Pieter
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601

Robert J. Cordingley

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

...or to repeat a refrain, what's the antidote to "them 'as got the gold makes the rules" (even in education)?
Robert C

On 9/27/10 6:13 AM, ERIC P. CHARLES wrote:

  We know and agree what Facebook's business model is: they do their 
utmost to get more and more people to join and then they use all the 
private stuff to target very focused adverts. Then there is also a 
natural tendency for the rich to become richer (Epstein and Axtell's 
"Sugarscape) and more powerful and then to abuse their money and
power.

My question is: how do you know when this is good or bad for society. 
Well, I don't argue that the extreme of this is evil, but where is the 
extreme? And further, what is a good way to keep the rich and powerful 
in check? Is it good to regulate it, and to what extent do you regulate 
it? If we regulate it, how do we prevent the regulations from getting 
out of hand and limit our freedom too much? When are regulations 
unnecessary and is it good enough to just tell everybody about the 
"evil" things they do?

Pieter

On 2010/09/26 09:07 PM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
> I admit that's a good point. I don't accuse Facebook of forcing anyone 
> to join them,
> it doesn't do this yet. But they try to force users to stay there once 
> they have joined. Many users are lured in, or join out of curiosity, 
> but Facebook doesn't let them out again. That's evil,
> especially because the high number of users
> is a key element in their advertising strategy.
>
> Another problem is that some data of your friends - photos, videos, or 
> information about events - may be inaccessible for you if you don't 
> join. Information is no longer freely available on the internet. 
> Finally all the buzz generated around Facebook suggests that it is a 
> wonderful place. It is not - only if you
> have something to sell. The buzz is generated partly because the media 
> itself is involved in it - many journalists and newspapers have an 
> account themselves.
> Imagine the language we speak would belong
> to a company. Every 5 years the company would invent a new version of 
> the language with plenty of new words, and every time we would
> have to learn the new words and rules (and print new books). The 
> language we speak belongs to us.
> Our private life, too. The Facebook operators don't violate privacy 
> occasionaly, it is their core business to violate privacy. People 
> should be aware of this.
>
> -J.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pieter Steenekamp" 
> [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]
>
>
>  If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you 
> accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you 
> accuse Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, 
> simply don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then 
> you die, so I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to 
> part with my dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least 
> you don't die.
>
> Pieter
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Russell Gonnering

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

In reply to this post by Pieter Steenekamp

Pieter-

If this is a Complex Adaptive System, and one can argue that it is, then imposed order will usually not be successful and have unforeseen consequences that may even be worse. David Snowden's Cynefin Framework (Harvard Business Review, Nov 2007 and: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Miwb92eZaJg) predicts a devolution into chaos when such imposed order is attempted. The best approach in his Framework, and one in which I agree, is to amplify the positive attractors and dampen the negative ones.

Russ#3
On Sep 27, 2010, at 2:46 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote:

> We know and agree what Facebook's business model is: they do their utmost to get more and more people to join and then they use all the private stuff to target very focused adverts. Then there is also a natural tendency for the rich to become richer (Epstein and Axtell's "Sugarscape) and more powerful and then to abuse their money and power.
>
> My question is: how do you know when this is good or bad for society. Well, I don't argue that the extreme of this is evil, but where is the extreme? And further, what is a good way to keep the rich and powerful in check? Is it good to regulate it, and to what extent do you regulate it? If we regulate it, how do we prevent the regulations from getting out of hand and limit our freedom too much? When are regulations unnecessary and is it good enough to just tell everybody about the "evil" things they do?
>
> Pieter
>
> On 2010/09/26 09:07 PM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
>> I admit that's a good point. I don't accuse Facebook of forcing anyone to join them,
>> it doesn't do this yet. But they try to force users to stay there once they have joined. Many users are lured in, or join out of curiosity, but Facebook doesn't let them out again. That's evil,
>> especially because the high number of users
>> is a key element in their advertising strategy.
>>
>> Another problem is that some data of your friends - photos, videos, or information about events - may be inaccessible for you if you don't join. Information is no longer freely available on the internet. Finally all the buzz generated around Facebook suggests that it is a wonderful place. It is not - only if you
>> have something to sell. The buzz is generated partly because the media itself is involved in it - many journalists and newspapers have an account themselves.
>> Imagine the language we speak would belong
>> to a company. Every 5 years the company would invent a new version of the language with plenty of new words, and every time we would
>> have to learn the new words and rules (and print new books). The language we speak belongs to us.
>> Our private life, too. The Facebook operators don't violate privacy occasionaly, it is their core business to violate privacy. People should be aware of this.
>>
>> -J.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pieter Steenekamp" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]
>>
>>
>>> If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you accuse Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, simply don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then you die, so I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to part with my dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least you don't die.
>>>
>>> Pieter
>>>
>>
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Parks, Raymond

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

In reply to this post by Nick Thompson

Citizen (Clone),

The fact that you asked indicates a lack of loyalty. If you had purchased the product, it would have been known and you would have been told. Please report to the nearest Reeducation Center.

Big Brother (The Computer)

P.S. If you get my parenthetical references you are as hopeless a gaming geek as I.

From: Nicholas Thompson [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 09:22 AM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <[hidden email]>; 'Pieter Steenekamp' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

Er….. um ……. What was the product?

  If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you

accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you accuse

Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, simply

don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then you die, so

I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to part with my

dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least you don't die.

Pieter

On 2010/09/26 09:03 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:

> No, it is not ridiculuos, it is serious.

> I think the Facebook phenomenon rises a number of interesting questions:

> Who are you? What is the core of a person? Why is social media so

> successful?

> When does a company become evil?

> Social media and social networks are

> a hot trend, maybe because people feel

> increasingly isolated in a digital and

> urbanized world. Erich Fromm says in "The Art of Loving":

"The deepest

> need of man is to overcome his separateness, to leave the prison of

> his aloneness." All social networks exploit this need.

> For example a social network for books like GoodReads or Shelfari

> connects you to readers with similar interests.

> Facebook is special. It claims to connect

> you to the people you already know.

> The problem is:

> a) You probably have multiple circles of

> friends, and these friends belong to different

> areas: family, job, hobby, sports, etc.

> Facebook allows you only to have one

> circle of friends and one single identity, your physical identity

> characterized by your real name and your real photo. Since the

> identity forms the core of a person, it reduces you to your physical

> appearance.

> If you are not good looking or if you have

> no friends, like the shy nerdy student Kip Drordy in the video, then

> Facebook classifies you as a loser. It denies you

> to be what you want to be, but the declaration

> of independence says: "all Men are created equal, they are endowed

> [..] with certain unalienable Rights, among these are Life, Liberty

> and the pursuit of Happiness."

> It does not mention the right to have a

> Facebook profile.

> b) To connect you to your friends, a company must own your private

data.

> Facebook forces you to reveal your private data, to give up your

> privacy. Would

> you tell the government who your friends

> are, where you have been, what you are doing?

> Then why do you tell it to a private company?

> Should our private life and our private data belong to a company at

> all? The people who think Facebook is evil say no. This is similar to

> the question of Microsoft a few years ago: should our Operating

> System, the Operating System of our computers, belong to a company?

> The people who think Microsoft is evil say no.

> Contrary to Twitter, Facebook forces you to give up your privacy: "We

> will connect you to your friends

> (if you give us your private data)".

> and reduces you to your physical appearance

> "We will connect you to your friends

> (if you tell us what you are doing

> right now and how you look like)"

> That's why Facebook is evil.

> -J.

> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfredo Covaleda To: The Friday

> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Saturday, September 25,

> 2010 10:58 PM

> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends

> So funny.

> My Facebook profile has more friends than me. Isn't is ridiculous?

> Alfredo

> ============================================================

> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601

Eric Charles

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

I don't think my clearance color is high enough to purchase that product.

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 09:41 AM, "Parks, Raymond" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Er….. um ……. What was the product?

If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you

accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you accuse

Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, simply

don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then you die, so

I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to part with my

dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least you don't die.

Pieter

On 2010/09/26 09:03 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:

> No, it is not ridiculuos, it is serious.

> I think the Facebook phenomenon rises a number of interesting questions:

> Who are you? What is the core of a person? Why is social media so

> successful?

> When does a company become evil?

> Social media and social networks are

> a hot trend, maybe because people feel

> increasingly isolated in a digital and

> urbanized world. Erich Fromm says in "The Art of Loving":

"The deepest

> need of man is to overcome his separateness, to leave the prison of

> his aloneness." All social networks exploit this need.

> For example a social network for books like GoodReads or Shelfari

> connects you to readers with similar interests.

> Facebook is special. It claims to connect

> you to the people you already know.

> The problem is:

> a) You probably have multiple circles of

> friends, and these friends belong to different

> areas: family, job, hobby, sports, etc.

> Facebook allows you only to have one

> circle of friends and one single identity, your physical identity

> characterized by your real name and your real photo. Since the

> identity forms the core of a person, it reduces you to your physical

> appearance.

> If you are not good looking or if you have

> no friends, like the shy nerdy student Kip Drordy in the video, then

> Facebook classifies you as a loser. It denies you

> to be what you want to be, but the declaration

> of independence says: "all Men are created equal, they are endowed

> [..] with certain unalienable Rights, among these are Life, Liberty

> and the pursuit of Happiness."

> It does not mention the right to have a

> Facebook profile.

> b) To connect you to your friends, a company must own your
private

data.

> Facebook forces you to reveal your private data, to give up your

> privacy. Would

> you tell the government who your friends

> are, where you have been, what you are doing?

> Then why do you tell it to a private company?

> Should our private life and our private data belong to a company at

> all? The people who think Facebook is evil say no. This is similar to

> the question of Microsoft a few years ago: should our Operating

> System, the Operating System of our computers, belong to a company?

> The people who think Microsoft is evil say no.

> Contrary to Twitter, Facebook forces you to give up your privacy: "We

> will connect you to your friends

> (if you give us your private data)".

> and reduces you to your physical appearance

> "We will connect you to your friends

> (if you tell us what you are doing

> right now and how you look like)"

> That's why Facebook is evil.

> -J.

> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfredo Covaleda To: The Friday

> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Saturday, September 25,

> 2010 10:58 PM

> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends

> So funny.

> My Facebook profile has more friends than me. Isn't is ridiculous?

> Alfredo

> ============================================================

> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at <a href="http://www.friam.org"
onclick="window.open('http://www.friam.org');return
false;">http://www.friam.org

============================================================

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at <a href="http://www.friam.org"
onclick="window.open('http://www.friam.org');return
false;">http://www.friam.org

Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601

Parks, Raymond

Re: You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

WooHoo, a real gaming geek.

Ray Parks                   [hidden email]
Consilient Heuristician     Voice: 505-844-4024
ATA Department              Mobile: 505-238-9359
http://www.sandia.gov/scada Fax: 505-844-9641
http://www.sandia.gov/idart Pager:505-951-6084

On 9/27/10 10:05 AM, ERIC P. CHARLES wrote:

I don't think my clearance color is high enough to purchase that product.

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 09:41 AM, "Parks, Raymond" [hidden email] wrote:
Citizen (Clone),

The fact that you asked indicates a lack of loyalty. If you had purchased the product, it would have been known and you would have been told. Please report to the nearest Reeducation Center.

Big Brother (The Computer)

P.S. If you get my parenthetical references you are as hopeless a gaming geek as I.

From: Nicholas Thompson [[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 09:22 AM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' [hidden email]; 'Pieter Steenekamp' [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

Er….. um ……. What was the product?

N

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of ERIC P. CHARLES
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 7:50 AM
To: Pieter Steenekamp
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends [why Facebook is evil]

This seems on topic:
I got an automated call the other day from a company telling me that there is a recall on one of their products. More specifically, records from my grocery store (presumably data stored in connection with my rewards card) indicated that I had purchased their product between 3 and 18 months previously. It was a little cool, and a little creepy at the same time.

Eric

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 07:23 AM, Pieter Steenekamp <pieters@...> wrote:

If a grocery store offers to sell you a bread for a dollar, do you

accuse them of forcing you to give you a dollar? Then why do you accuse

Facebook of forcing you to do anything? If you don't like it, simply

don't open an account with them. If you don't buy bread then you die, so

I would rather accuse the grocery store of forcing me to part with my

dollar. If you don't open a Facebook account, at least you don't die.

Pieter

On 2010/09/26 09:03 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:

> No, it is not ridiculuos, it is serious.

> I think the Facebook phenomenon rises a number of interesting questions:

> Who are you? What is the core of a person? Why is social media so

> successful?

> When does a company become evil?

>

> Social media and social networks are

> a hot trend, maybe because people feel

> increasingly isolated in a digital and

> urbanized world. Erich Fromm says in "The Art of Loving":

"The deepest

> need of man is to overcome his separateness, to leave the prison of

> his aloneness." All social networks exploit this need.

> For example a social network for books like GoodReads or Shelfari

> connects you to readers with similar interests.

> Facebook is special. It claims to connect

> you to the people you already know.

> The problem is:

>

> a) You probably have multiple circles of

> friends, and these friends belong to different

> areas: family, job, hobby, sports, etc.

> Facebook allows you only to have one

> circle of friends and one single identity, your physical identity

> characterized by your real name and your real photo. Since the

> identity forms the core of a person, it reduces you to your physical

> appearance.

> If you are not good looking or if you have

> no friends, like the shy nerdy student Kip Drordy in the video, then

> Facebook classifies you as a loser. It denies you

> to be what you want to be, but the declaration

> of independence says: "all Men are created equal, they are endowed

> [..] with certain unalienable Rights, among these are Life, Liberty

> and the pursuit of Happiness."

> It does not mention the right to have a

> Facebook profile.

>

> b) To connect you to your friends, a company must own your private

data.

> Facebook forces you to reveal your private data, to give up your

> privacy. Would

> you tell the government who your friends

> are, where you have been, what you are doing?

> Then why do you tell it to a private company?

> Should our private life and our private data belong to a company at

> all? The people who think Facebook is evil say no. This is similar to

> the question of Microsoft a few years ago: should our Operating

> System, the Operating System of our computers, belong to a company?

> The people who think Microsoft is evil say no.

>

> Contrary to Twitter, Facebook forces you to give up your privacy: "We

> will connect you to your friends

> (if you give us your private data)".

> and reduces you to your physical appearance

> "We will connect you to your friends

> (if you tell us what you are doing

> right now and how you look like)"

> That's why Facebook is evil.

>

> -J.

>

>

> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfredo Covaleda To: The Friday

> Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Saturday, September 25,

> 2010 10:58 PM

> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] You Have 0 Friends

>

> So funny.

>

> My Facebook profile has more friends than me. Isn't is ridiculous?

>

> Alfredo

>

>

>

> ============================================================

> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.friam.org" onclick="window.open('http://www.friam.org');return false;">http://www.friam.org

>

============================================================

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.friam.org" onclick="window.open('http://www.friam.org');return false;">http://www.friam.org

Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601