What should we do?

[Barry MacKichan]

I’m sending a couple of links that might be relevant to part of the
conversation on Friday.

http://qz.com/846940/a-yale-history-professors-20-point-guide-to-defending-democracy-under-a-trump-presidency/

and

http://xkcd.com/1779/

--Barry


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Nick Thompson]

Hi, Barry,

 

This is great.  I will paste it in below for those who are reluctant to click on stuff. 

I am struck by the contrast between the ordinariness of most of his suggestions and number #19.  Almost all the others are things I can do without disturbing my day to day life.  I already DO a lot of them, and look where we are.  #19 can be seen a metaphor for all the things I might do which would involve mobilizing me for activities I do not naturally.  I think the problem is that we all have to start stepping out onto that slippery slope.  Here is the text:

 

Americans are no wiser than the Europeans who saw democracy yield to fascism, Nazism, or communism. Our one advantage is that we might learn from their experience. Now is a good time to do so. Here are twenty lessons from the twentieth century, adapted to the circumstances of today:

1. Do not obey in advance.

Much of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive government will want, and then start to do it without being asked. You’ve already done this, haven’t you? Stop. Anticipatory obedience teaches authorities what is possible and accelerates unfreedom.

2. Defend an institution.

Defend an institution. Follow the courts or the media, or a court or a newspaper. Do not speak of “our institutions” unless you are making them yours by acting on their behalf. Institutions don’t protect themselves. They go down like dominoes unless each is defended from the beginning.

3. Recall professional ethics.

When the leaders of state set a negative example, professional commitments to just practice become much more important. It is hard to break a rule-of-law state without lawyers, and it is hard to have show trials without judges.

4. When listening to politicians, distinguish certain words.

Look out for the expansive use of “terrorism” and “extremism.” Be alive to the fatal notions of “exception” and “emergency.” Be angry about the treacherous use of patriotic vocabulary.

5. Be calm when the unthinkable arrives.

When the terrorist attack comes, remember that all authoritarians at all times either await or plan such events in order to consolidate power. Think of the Reichstag fire. The sudden disaster that requires the end of the balance of power, the end of opposition parties, and so on, is the oldest trick in the Hitlerian book. Don’t fall for it.

6. Be kind to our language.

Avoid pronouncing the phrases everyone else does. Think up your own way of speaking, even if only to convey that thing you think everyone is saying. (Don’t use the internet before bed. Charge your gadgets away from your bedroom, and read.) What to read? Perhaps The Power of the Powerless by Václav Havel, 1984 by George Orwell, The Captive Mind by Czesław Milosz, The Rebel by Albert Camus, The Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt, or Nothing is True and Everything is Possible by Peter Pomerantsev.

7. Stand out.

Someone has to. It is easy, in words and deeds, to follow along. It can feel strange to do or say something different. But without that unease, there is no freedom. And the moment you set an example, the spell of the status quo is broken, and others will follow.

8. Believe in truth.

To abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing is true, then no one can criticize power, because there is no basis upon which to do so. If nothing is true, then all is spectacle. The biggest wallet pays for the most blinding lights.

9. Investigate.

Figure things out for yourself. Spend more time with long articles. Subsidize investigative journalism by subscribing to print media. Realize that some of what is on your screen is there to harm you. Learn about sites that investigate foreign propaganda pushes.

10. Practice corporeal politics.

Power wants your body softening in your chair and your emotions dissipating on the screen. Get outside. Put your body in unfamiliar places with unfamiliar people. Make new friends and march with them.

11. Make eye contact and small talk.

This is not just polite. It is a way to stay in touch with your surroundings, break down unnecessary social barriers, and come to understand whom you should and should not trust. If we enter a culture of denunciation, you will want to know the psychological landscape of your daily life.

12. Take responsibility for the face of the world.

Notice the swastikas and the other signs of hate. Do not look away and do not get used to them. Remove them yourself and set an example for others to do so.

13. Hinder the one-party state.

The parties that took over states were once something else. They exploited a historical moment to make political life impossible for their rivals. Vote in local and state elections while you can.

14. Give regularly to good causes, if you can.

Pick a charity and set up autopay. Then you will know that you have made a free choice that is supporting civil society helping others doing something good.

15. Establish a private life.

Nastier rulers will use what they know about you to push you around. Scrub your computer of malware. Remember that email is skywriting. Consider using alternative forms of the internet, or simply using it less. Have personal exchanges in person. For the same reason, resolve any legal trouble. Authoritarianism works as a blackmail state, looking for the hook on which to hang you. Try not to have too many hooks.

16. Learn from others in other countries.

Keep up your friendships abroad, or make new friends abroad. The present difficulties here are an element of a general trend. And no country is going to find a solution by itself. Make sure you and your family have passports.

17. Watch out for the paramilitaries.

When the men with guns who have always claimed to be against the system start wearing uniforms and marching around with torches and pictures of a Leader, the end is nigh. When the pro-Leader paramilitary and the official police and military intermingle, the game is over.

18. Be reflective if you must be armed.

If you carry a weapon in public service, God bless you and keep you. But know that evils of the past involved policemen and soldiers finding themselves, one day, doing irregular things. Be ready to say no. (If you do not know what this means, contact the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and ask about training in professional ethics.)

19. Be as courageous as you can.

If none of us is prepared to die for freedom, then all of us will die in unfreedom.

20. Be a patriot.

The incoming president is not. Set a good example of what America means for the generations to come. They will need it. .

This article was originally published as a Facebook post by Timothy Snyder, the Housum Professor of History at Yale University and author of Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning.

 

 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barry MacKichan
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 4:07 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] What should we do?

 

I’m sending a couple of links that might be relevant to part of the conversation on Friday.

 

http://qz.com/846940/a-yale-history-professors-20-point-guide-to-defending-democracy-under-a-trump-presidency/

 

and

 

http://xkcd.com/1779/

 

--Barry

 

 

============================================================

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Marcus G. Daniels]

When people like this start shifting gears in such a self-serving way, it is not a good sign.  

1. Do not obey in advance.

Much of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive government will want, and then start to do it without being asked. You’ve already done this, haven’t you? Stop. Anticipatory obedience teaches authorities what is possible and accelerates unfreedom.

---

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Nick Thompson <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 4:48 PM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What should we do?

 

Hi, Barry,

 

This is great.  I will paste it in below for those who are reluctant to click on stuff. 

I am struck by the contrast between the ordinariness of most of his suggestions and number #19.  Almost all the others are things I can do without disturbing my day to day life.  I already DO a lot of them, and look where we are.  #19 can be seen a metaphor for all the things I might do which would involve mobilizing me for activities I do not naturally.  I think the problem is that we all have to start stepping out onto that slippery slope.  Here is the text:

 

Americans are no wiser than the Europeans who saw democracy yield to fascism, Nazism, or communism. Our one advantage is that we might learn from their experience. Now is a good time to do so. Here are twenty lessons from the twentieth century, adapted to the circumstances of today:

1. Do not obey in advance.

Much of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive government will want, and then start to do it without being asked. You’ve already done this, haven’t you? Stop. Anticipatory obedience teaches authorities what is possible and accelerates unfreedom.

2. Defend an institution.

Defend an institution. Follow the courts or the media, or a court or a newspaper. Do not speak of “our institutions” unless you are making them yours by acting on their behalf. Institutions don’t protect themselves. They go down like dominoes unless each is defended from the beginning.

3. Recall professional ethics.

When the leaders of state set a negative example, professional commitments to just practice become much more important. It is hard to break a rule-of-law state without lawyers, and it is hard to have show trials without judges.

4. When listening to politicians, distinguish certain words.

Look out for the expansive use of “terrorism” and “extremism.” Be alive to the fatal notions of “exception” and “emergency.” Be angry about the treacherous use of patriotic vocabulary.

5. Be calm when the unthinkable arrives.

When the terrorist attack comes, remember that all authoritarians at all times either await or plan such events in order to consolidate power. Think of the Reichstag fire. The sudden disaster that requires the end of the balance of power, the end of opposition parties, and so on, is the oldest trick in the Hitlerian book. Don’t fall for it.

6. Be kind to our language.

Avoid pronouncing the phrases everyone else does. Think up your own way of speaking, even if only to convey that thing you think everyone is saying. (Don’t use the internet before bed. Charge your gadgets away from your bedroom, and read.) What to read? Perhaps The Power of the Powerless by Václav Havel, 1984 by George Orwell, The Captive Mind by Czesław Milosz, The Rebel by Albert Camus, The Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt, or Nothing is True and Everything is Possible by Peter Pomerantsev.

7. Stand out.

Someone has to. It is easy, in words and deeds, to follow along. It can feel strange to do or say something different. But without that unease, there is no freedom. And the moment you set an example, the spell of the status quo is broken, and others will follow.

8. Believe in truth.

To abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing is true, then no one can criticize power, because there is no basis upon which to do so. If nothing is true, then all is spectacle. The biggest wallet pays for the most blinding lights.

9. Investigate.

Figure things out for yourself. Spend more time with long articles. Subsidize investigative journalism by subscribing to print media. Realize that some of what is on your screen is there to harm you. Learn about sites that investigate foreign propaganda pushes.

10. Practice corporeal politics.

Power wants your body softening in your chair and your emotions dissipating on the screen. Get outside. Put your body in unfamiliar places with unfamiliar people. Make new friends and march with them.

11. Make eye contact and small talk.

This is not just polite. It is a way to stay in touch with your surroundings, break down unnecessary social barriers, and come to understand whom you should and should not trust. If we enter a culture of denunciation, you will want to know the psychological landscape of your daily life.

12. Take responsibility for the face of the world.

Notice the swastikas and the other signs of hate. Do not look away and do not get used to them. Remove them yourself and set an example for others to do so.

13. Hinder the one-party state.

The parties that took over states were once something else. They exploited a historical moment to make political life impossible for their rivals. Vote in local and state elections while you can.

14. Give regularly to good causes, if you can.

Pick a charity and set up autopay. Then you will know that you have made a free choice that is supporting civil society helping others doing something good.

15. Establish a private life.

Nastier rulers will use what they know about you to push you around. Scrub your computer of malware. Remember that email is skywriting. Consider using alternative forms of the internet, or simply using it less. Have personal exchanges in person. For the same reason, resolve any legal trouble. Authoritarianism works as a blackmail state, looking for the hook on which to hang you. Try not to have too many hooks.

16. Learn from others in other countries.

Keep up your friendships abroad, or make new friends abroad. The present difficulties here are an element of a general trend. And no country is going to find a solution by itself. Make sure you and your family have passports.

17. Watch out for the paramilitaries.

When the men with guns who have always claimed to be against the system start wearing uniforms and marching around with torches and pictures of a Leader, the end is nigh. When the pro-Leader paramilitary and the official police and military intermingle, the game is over.

18. Be reflective if you must be armed.

If you carry a weapon in public service, God bless you and keep you. But know that evils of the past involved policemen and soldiers finding themselves, one day, doing irregular things. Be ready to say no. (If you do not know what this means, contact the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and ask about training in professional ethics.)

19. Be as courageous as you can.

If none of us is prepared to die for freedom, then all of us will die in unfreedom.

20. Be a patriot.

The incoming president is not. Set a good example of what America means for the generations to come. They will need it. .

This article was originally published as a Facebook post by Timothy Snyder, the Housum Professor of History at Yale University and author of Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning.

 

 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barry MacKichan
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 4:07 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] What should we do?

 

I’m sending a couple of links that might be relevant to part of the conversation on Friday.

 

http://qz.com/846940/a-yale-history-professors-20-point-guide-to-defending-democracy-under-a-trump-presidency/

 

and

 

http://xkcd.com/1779/

 

--Barry

 

 

============================================================

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Nick Thompson]

Marcus,

 

Yes.  This one was a bit of cold water in the face for me.  Because part of what I was looking for from this inquiry was somebody to FOLLOW in the next four years.  But is that avoidable.  Isn’t concerted action what we will need?

 

Nick

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 5:52 PM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What should we do?

 

When people like this start shifting gears in such a self-serving way, it is not a good sign.  

 

1. Do not obey in advance.

Much of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive government will want, and then start to do it without being asked. You’ve already done this, haven’t you? Stop. Anticipatory obedience teaches authorities what is possible and accelerates unfreedom.

 

 

---

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Nick Thompson <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 4:48 PM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What should we do?

 

Hi, Barry,

 

This is great.  I will paste it in below for those who are reluctant to click on stuff. 

I am struck by the contrast between the ordinariness of most of his suggestions and number #19.  Almost all the others are things I can do without disturbing my day to day life.  I already DO a lot of them, and look where we are.  #19 can be seen a metaphor for all the things I might do which would involve mobilizing me for activities I do not naturally.  I think the problem is that we all have to start stepping out onto that slippery slope.  Here is the text:

 

Americans are no wiser than the Europeans who saw democracy yield to fascism, Nazism, or communism. Our one advantage is that we might learn from their experience. Now is a good time to do so. Here are twenty lessons from the twentieth century, adapted to the circumstances of today:

1. Do not obey in advance.

Much of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive government will want, and then start to do it without being asked. You’ve already done this, haven’t you? Stop. Anticipatory obedience teaches authorities what is possible and accelerates unfreedom.

2. Defend an institution.

Defend an institution. Follow the courts or the media, or a court or a newspaper. Do not speak of “our institutions” unless you are making them yours by acting on their behalf. Institutions don’t protect themselves. They go down like dominoes unless each is defended from the beginning.

3. Recall professional ethics.

When the leaders of state set a negative example, professional commitments to just practice become much more important. It is hard to break a rule-of-law state without lawyers, and it is hard to have show trials without judges.

4. When listening to politicians, distinguish certain words.

Look out for the expansive use of “terrorism” and “extremism.” Be alive to the fatal notions of “exception” and “emergency.” Be angry about the treacherous use of patriotic vocabulary.

5. Be calm when the unthinkable arrives.

When the terrorist attack comes, remember that all authoritarians at all times either await or plan such events in order to consolidate power. Think of the Reichstag fire. The sudden disaster that requires the end of the balance of power, the end of opposition parties, and so on, is the oldest trick in the Hitlerian book. Don’t fall for it.

6. Be kind to our language.

Avoid pronouncing the phrases everyone else does. Think up your own way of speaking, even if only to convey that thing you think everyone is saying. (Don’t use the internet before bed. Charge your gadgets away from your bedroom, and read.) What to read? Perhaps The Power of the Powerless by Václav Havel, 1984 by George Orwell, The Captive Mind by Czesław Milosz, The Rebel by Albert Camus, The Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt, or Nothing is True and Everything is Possible by Peter Pomerantsev.

7. Stand out.

Someone has to. It is easy, in words and deeds, to follow along. It can feel strange to do or say something different. But without that unease, there is no freedom. And the moment you set an example, the spell of the status quo is broken, and others will follow.

8. Believe in truth.

To abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing is true, then no one can criticize power, because there is no basis upon which to do so. If nothing is true, then all is spectacle. The biggest wallet pays for the most blinding lights.

9. Investigate.

Figure things out for yourself. Spend more time with long articles. Subsidize investigative journalism by subscribing to print media. Realize that some of what is on your screen is there to harm you. Learn about sites that investigate foreign propaganda pushes.

10. Practice corporeal politics.

Power wants your body softening in your chair and your emotions dissipating on the screen. Get outside. Put your body in unfamiliar places with unfamiliar people. Make new friends and march with them.

11. Make eye contact and small talk.

This is not just polite. It is a way to stay in touch with your surroundings, break down unnecessary social barriers, and come to understand whom you should and should not trust. If we enter a culture of denunciation, you will want to know the psychological landscape of your daily life.

12. Take responsibility for the face of the world.

Notice the swastikas and the other signs of hate. Do not look away and do not get used to them. Remove them yourself and set an example for others to do so.

13. Hinder the one-party state.

The parties that took over states were once something else. They exploited a historical moment to make political life impossible for their rivals. Vote in local and state elections while you can.

14. Give regularly to good causes, if you can.

Pick a charity and set up autopay. Then you will know that you have made a free choice that is supporting civil society helping others doing something good.

15. Establish a private life.

Nastier rulers will use what they know about you to push you around. Scrub your computer of malware. Remember that email is skywriting. Consider using alternative forms of the internet, or simply using it less. Have personal exchanges in person. For the same reason, resolve any legal trouble. Authoritarianism works as a blackmail state, looking for the hook on which to hang you. Try not to have too many hooks.

16. Learn from others in other countries.

Keep up your friendships abroad, or make new friends abroad. The present difficulties here are an element of a general trend. And no country is going to find a solution by itself. Make sure you and your family have passports.

17. Watch out for the paramilitaries.

When the men with guns who have always claimed to be against the system start wearing uniforms and marching around with torches and pictures of a Leader, the end is nigh. When the pro-Leader paramilitary and the official police and military intermingle, the game is over.

18. Be reflective if you must be armed.

If you carry a weapon in public service, God bless you and keep you. But know that evils of the past involved policemen and soldiers finding themselves, one day, doing irregular things. Be ready to say no. (If you do not know what this means, contact the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and ask about training in professional ethics.)

19. Be as courageous as you can.

If none of us is prepared to die for freedom, then all of us will die in unfreedom.

20. Be a patriot.

The incoming president is not. Set a good example of what America means for the generations to come. They will need it. .

This article was originally published as a Facebook post by Timothy Snyder, the Housum Professor of History at Yale University and author of Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning.

 

 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barry MacKichan
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 4:07 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] What should we do?

 

I’m sending a couple of links that might be relevant to part of the conversation on Friday.

 

http://qz.com/846940/a-yale-history-professors-20-point-guide-to-defending-democracy-under-a-trump-presidency/

 

and

 

http://xkcd.com/1779/

 

--Barry

 

 

============================================================

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Marcus G. Daniels]

Nick writes:

 

“Because part of what I was looking for from this inquiry was somebody to FOLLOW in the next four years.  But is that avoidable.  Isn’t concerted action what we will need?”

 

Systems that involve having somebody to follow are systems that can be surveilled and controlled.   If people are informed (#8) and act autonomously or in a multi-lateral fashion (#s 2, 3, 7, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15), it is harder for the bullies to prepare a defense.  I think #18 and #19 are pretty dark for most folks to consider so far, but I’m glad there are professors that aren’t sugar-coating it.

 

Marcus

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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Nick Thompson]

Thanks, Marcus. 

 

I agree with most of what you say, but – just to be obnoxious – doesn’t cooperation of any kind make us vulnerable to manipulation? 

 

Nick

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 8:20 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What should we do?

 

Nick writes:

 

“Because part of what I was looking for from this inquiry was somebody to FOLLOW in the next four years.  But is that avoidable.  Isn’t concerted action what we will need?”

 

Systems that involve having somebody to follow are systems that can be surveilled and controlled.   If people are informed (#8) and act autonomously or in a multi-lateral fashion (#s 2, 3, 7, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15), it is harder for the bullies to prepare a defense.  I think #18 and #19 are pretty dark for most folks to consider so far, but I’m glad there are professors that aren’t sugar-coating it.

 

Marcus

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Marcus G. Daniels]

Nick writes:

 

“[..] doesn’t cooperation of any kind make us vulnerable to manipulation?”

 

Everyone should try to be useful -- being used is just the proof.   We can try to be self-aware, too, and try to understand if we are being put to good use, but also humble enough to expect we won’t always understand our utility until later.   We can take the lead and make decisions when decisions need to be made.   Cooperation takes constant attention and improvisation, but also some framework for shared understanding of the world (and the enemy).

 

Marcus

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[David Eric Smith]

<base href="x-msg://4/">Marcus writes: 

I think #18 and #19 are pretty dark for most folks to consider so far, but I’m glad there are professors that aren’t sugar-coating it.

I certainly agree with the last clause (as with all you wrote before it).  The thing is that, short of death, the legal and criminal apparatus of the US provides almost unlimited means of harassment that may be worse than death, in that they can consume all resources of time and effort by an individual to fight them.

The early stages of this make me think of cancers.  The reason they are so difficult to deal with is that, for the most part, the cell populations are not completely disintegrated and non-functional.  Most of their systems still function very robustly, which seems to be the cause of different cancers' seemingly producing quite robust phenotypes, even after the putative triggering problem has been knocked out.  Those systems have just been re-directed by control signals of the wrong kind. 

A state in which the mechanics of the institutions is still quite functional, but its command and control has been hijacked, seems to be the problem we are likely to have to deal with in the next stages.  Snyder's question can start with which people have the courage to stand in the line of fire if it costs them everything they had tried to build to live, and leaves them still alive.  

I wish there were still many Indians alive who had experienced living through the (Mohandas) Gandhi years.  What was it like to coordinate hundreds of millions of people so that, when the institutions were getting unwanted control signals, they could, in a widely distributed fashion, function much worse or not at all.

Eric

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Marcus G. Daniels]

<base href="x-msg://4/">

Eric writes:

 

“I wish there were still many Indians alive who had experienced living through the (Mohandas) Gandhi years.  What was it like to coordinate hundreds of millions of people so that, when the institutions were getting unwanted control signals, they could, in a widely distributed fashion, function much worse or not at all.”

 

Realistically, it is probably more like a couple million until the expected symptoms of the cancer really start to be evident.   But that’s a big number and it’s a sophisticated part of the population.   As Nick remarked (as did Glen farther back), while disruptive, it is not impossible (maybe even “exciting”) to imagine changing one’s life in significant ways to adapt.  A way to recover purpose in life and work.  Another troubling part is that careerism creates a lot of momentum and there would be ongoing defections.  On the other hand, the bi-coastal folks that are engaged in the `new’ economy may have fewer attachments (like heavily mortgaged homes or kids in school), and might be more aggressive. 

 

Marcus

 

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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Marcus G. Daniels]

<base href="x-msg://4/">

“The early stages of this make me think of cancers.  The reason they are so difficult to deal with is that, for the most part, the cell populations are not completely disintegrated and non-functional.  Most of their systems still function very robustly, which seems to be the cause of different cancers' seemingly producing quite robust phenotypes, even after the putative triggering problem has been knocked out.  Those systems have just been re-directed by control signals of the wrong kind.”

 

I know you hate abuse of metaphors, but you started it!

 

Cytotoxic compounds:   Remove tax deductions for dependents?  How does that happen with a conservative government?

 

Surgery or Radiation:   Litigation (ACLU, EFF, SPLC, etc.).   Other things but keeping in mind Gandhi’s leadership.

 

Immunotherapy:  Taking back state legislatures.   Fire people up at the local level.

 

Gene therapy:  Education, propaganda.

 

Hormone therapy:  Take away the money and red meat.   Work behind the scenes.  Get people at risk out of harm’s way.   Refocus on work and investments decoupled from government. 

 

Small-molecule drugs and monoclonal antibodies:   Tease apart the constituencies and identify risks from some of them, e.g. tag the alt-right as Nazis and dangerous.   Divide and conquer.

 

Controlling signaling / stopping transport:  Stopping fake news

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Jochen Fromm-5]

Interesting. Unfortunately the cancer of fascism (Trumpism?) has already broke out in the US now, the only way to stop the cancer of Nazism in Nazi Germany was to destroy the whole country by "surgery" and bombardment. Good luck.

Chemotherapy means killing the fast replicating cells, this would perhaps roughly correspond to closing mosques of extremists und churches of aggressive sects (since they are the stem cells of cultural cancer). Or to prohibit all organizations like alt-right which grow extremely fast.

-Jochen

-------- Original message --------

From: Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]>

Date: 1/5/17 20:18 (GMT+01:00)

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What should we do?

“The early stages of this make me think of cancers.  The reason they are so difficult to deal with is that, for the most part, the cell populations are not completely disintegrated and non-functional.  Most of their systems still function very robustly, which seems to be the cause of different cancers' seemingly producing quite robust phenotypes, even after the putative triggering problem has been knocked out.  Those systems have just been re-directed by control signals of the wrong kind.”

 

I know you hate abuse of metaphors, but you started it!

 

Cytotoxic compounds:   Remove tax deductions for dependents?  How does that happen with a conservative government?

 

Surgery or Radiation:   Litigation (ACLU, EFF, SPLC, etc.).   Other things but keeping in mind Gandhi’s leadership.

 

Immunotherapy:  Taking back state legislatures.   Fire people up at the local level.

 

Gene therapy:  Education, propaganda.

 

Hormone therapy:  Take away the money and red meat.   Work behind the scenes.  Get people at risk out of harm’s way.   Refocus on work and investments decoupled from government. 

 

Small-molecule drugs and monoclonal antibodies:   Tease apart the constituencies and identify risks from some of them, e.g. tag the alt-right as Nazis and dangerous.   Divide and conquer.

 

Controlling signaling / stopping transport:  Stopping fake news

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Steve Smith]

Cancer is an interesting metaphor here, and I find it somewhat apt.  

I am not a big fan of allopathic medicine in the first place, so would prefer to look to naturopathic remedies that involve a combination of symptom relief, lifestyle change, stress reduction and general systemic support.   The specific threat of "cancer" aside, these are all things one would wish on even a healthy person, no?

I sometimes feel that the bulk of our modern maladies (technological such as resource depletion, pollution and systemic disturbances, or sociological such as fascism, totalitarianism, xenophobia, misogyny) are nothing more than the consequence of our last ham-fisted technological or sociological *fix* of a previous malady... a domino of pain and suffering so far removed from cause to effect that we don't bother to recognize the patterns and interrupt them.

Extremism does seem to be implicated in our social problems, but it is not clear to me that closing churches or mosques will solve the problem, it seems almost as if this is like crushing a tumor and not expecting the result to be metastasis and systemic spread.  Don't our invasions in the middle east seem a bit like that?  What has been decried as "surgical" (really) has been more like blunt-force trauma.

We may have just replaced a semi-competent, but under-equipped surgeon with an untrained but eager butcher with inappropriate tools (i.e. his forming cabinet).   Bernie would perhaps have been the naturapath I was wishing for?   And HIllary?  Highly skilled and well equipped but maybe not as interested in the patient's well being as one would hope.

On 1/5/17 11:55 PM, Jochen Fromm wrote:

Interesting. Unfortunately the cancer of fascism (Trumpism?) has already broke out in the US now, the only way to stop the cancer of Nazism in Nazi Germany was to destroy the whole country by "surgery" and bombardment. Good luck.

Chemotherapy means killing the fast replicating cells, this would perhaps roughly correspond to closing mosques of extremists und churches of aggressive sects (since they are the stem cells of cultural cancer). Or to prohibit all organizations like alt-right which grow extremely fast.

-Jochen

-------- Original message --------

From: Marcus Daniels [hidden email]

Date: 1/5/17 20:18 (GMT+01:00)

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What should we do?

“The early stages of this make me think of cancers.  The reason they are so difficult to deal with is that, for the most part, the cell populations are not completely disintegrated and non-functional.  Most of their systems still function very robustly, which seems to be the cause of different cancers' seemingly producing quite robust phenotypes, even after the putative triggering problem has been knocked out.  Those systems have just been re-directed by control signals of the wrong kind.”

 

I know you hate abuse of metaphors, but you started it!

 

Cytotoxic compounds:   Remove tax deductions for dependents?  How does that happen with a conservative government?

 

Surgery or Radiation:   Litigation (ACLU, EFF, SPLC, etc.).   Other things but keeping in mind Gandhi’s leadership.

 

Immunotherapy:  Taking back state legislatures.   Fire people up at the local level.

 

Gene therapy:  Education, propaganda.

 

Hormone therapy:  Take away the money and red meat.   Work behind the scenes.  Get people at risk out of harm’s way.   Refocus on work and investments decoupled from government. 

 

Small-molecule drugs and monoclonal antibodies:   Tease apart the constituencies and identify risks from some of them, e.g. tag the alt-right as Nazis and dangerous.   Divide and conquer.

 

Controlling signaling / stopping transport:  Stopping fake news

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Marcus G. Daniels]

Jochen write:

"Unfortunately the cancer of fascism (Trumpism?) has already broke out in the US now, the only way to stop the cancer of Nazism in Nazi Germany was to destroy the whole country by "surgery" and bombardment. Good luck."

I was thinking of knocking down statutes one at a time in the Supreme Court, rather than knocking down individual people like through impeachment.   In the space of ideas rather the space of people.   Nonetheless, it is useful to work through all the options, even if some of them have to be disqualified.

But I must admit that as an Oregonian (originally) I was hoping for a swarm of helicopters or an F-16 to come into Malheur National Wildlife Refuge to make an instructive example of how not to act.  (In the end it was handled reasonably well by the FBI.  The prosecution of the criminals, not so much.)

"Chemotherapy means killing the fast replicating cells, this would perhaps roughly correspond to closing mosques of extremists und churches of aggressive sects (since they are the stem cells of cultural cancer). Or to prohibit all organizations like alt-right which grow extremely fast."

Here I was thinking of removing tax deductions for having children, giving incentives for kids in rural parts of country to not to not put down roots and instead to move to more productive parts of the country as needed.   (Incidentally, this one reason I think why a voucher system for school might not be all bad -- get the kids the hell out of there before their minds start to rot.  It would just have to disqualify things like home schooling and religious schools.)  This is from the pessimistic point of view that, given the electoral college, it could take decades to for backward voting blocs in the United States to become completely marginalized.   So, rather,  slowing the rate of reproduction and breaking up tumors before they form.

Marcus

---

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2017 11:55:11 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What should we do?

 

Interesting. Unfortunately the cancer of fascism (Trumpism?) has already broke out in the US now, the only way to stop the cancer of Nazism in Nazi Germany was to destroy the whole country by "surgery" and bombardment. Good luck.

Chemotherapy means killing the fast replicating cells, this would perhaps roughly correspond to closing mosques of extremists und churches of aggressive sects (since they are the stem cells of cultural cancer). Or to prohibit all organizations like alt-right which grow extremely fast.

-Jochen

-------- Original message --------

From: Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]>

Date: 1/5/17 20:18 (GMT+01:00)

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What should we do?

“The early stages of this make me think of cancers.  The reason they are so difficult to deal with is that, for the most part, the cell populations are not completely disintegrated and non-functional.  Most of their systems still function very robustly, which seems to be the cause of different cancers' seemingly producing quite robust phenotypes, even after the putative triggering problem has been knocked out.  Those systems have just been re-directed by control signals of the wrong kind.”

 

I know you hate abuse of metaphors, but you started it!

 

Cytotoxic compounds:   Remove tax deductions for dependents?  How does that happen with a conservative government?

 

Surgery or Radiation:   Litigation (ACLU, EFF, SPLC, etc.).   Other things but keeping in mind Gandhi’s leadership.

 

Immunotherapy:  Taking back state legislatures.   Fire people up at the local level.

 

Gene therapy:  Education, propaganda.

 

Hormone therapy:  Take away the money and red meat.   Work behind the scenes.  Get people at risk out of harm’s way.   Refocus on work and investments decoupled from government. 

 

Small-molecule drugs and monoclonal antibodies:   Tease apart the constituencies and identify risks from some of them, e.g. tag the alt-right as Nazis and dangerous.   Divide and conquer.

 

Controlling signaling / stopping transport:  Stopping fake news

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove