What is Stopping Poor People From Moving? - The Atlantic
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What is Stopping Poor People From Moving? - The Atlantic
 
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Pertinent to this morning's discussion. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/10/geographic-mobility-and-housing/542439/ TJ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: What is Stopping Poor People From Moving? - The Atlantic
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Very important. Certainly for Santa Fe. I posted on Facebook. George Duncan Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University georgeduncanart.com See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
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On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 2:54 PM, Tom Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: What is Stopping Poor People From Moving? - The Atlantic
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In reply to this post by Tom Johnson
While the world has seen many mass migrations forced by economics
(and climate), I doubt it has ever been a "pretty picture" either
for those forced to migrate or those forced to receive them.
Certainly the indigenous people of North (and to a lesser extent
South) America got quite the shock as Europe flooded the "New World"
with it's disaffected as well as it's fortune-seekers.
In the intra-continental migrations during/after the industrial revolution (as subsistence farmers became coal miners, and then their children moved to the rust belt, etc.) people often arrived "too many, too late". I suspect the dustbowl/depression had a lot of that. People chasing rainbows across the country only to discover that "the good jobs" were gone by the time they got there. I see that in my children's generation in their educational/vocational choices... getting a big fat education to meet the opportunities/needs WE saw for them in the 90's only to find that they demands shifted out from under them. I've been seeing the very whimsical advertisements on Hulu for Monster.com where a giant purple-cookie-monster-like-being punches out the windows of a shoddy office building to grab a "sweet young office worker" and transport her (king-kong-like) to a crisp/clean hirise office build where he leaves her at her new desk with her new office mates only mildly surprised. I wonder if this isn't too close to the reality of our current job market, even for entry-level professionals... feeling that helpless and capricious about job prospects. With our efforts at SFx to support "the Gig Economy", I got a good taste of how complicated supporting creatives in Santa Fe really is. Now, the same with trying to help create and hold high tech work in the area. Housing is a significant but not singular component. Many of us where here (and some probably profited) during the housing boom of the 90s when developers/builders managed to change the anti-development climate of the county in such a way as to open up rampant (over?)building. For the most part, I don't think it helped the lower end of the economic spectrum of the county/city. - Steve
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: What is Stopping Poor People From Moving? - The Atlantic
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Many here are thinking this. I shall say it. Jerks. Plane and simple their are many jerks in the business world. Also things are pretty out of kilter. I don't make it a secret that I am challenged when it comes to those litttle slips of paper. I don't know how many job postings I've seen that'll litterally say 'must know view.just vers 0.4 PHP v 5.6 python 3, Java VM, JavaDM, MongoDB, and have head for drawing and sketching, be energetic and have a zest for life.' (In my head ....) I 've been turned down many times simply because I am not physically located in the city the place is. Even though it's webyweb work much of wich can be done by TeleComute. Perhaps others have a different view ^_^ On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Steven A Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: What is Stopping Poor People From Moving? - The Atlantic
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In reply to this post by Tom Johnson
Something else to consider is these days it's pretty lame not to have a basic set of Units (USD, EtherCoin etc)+ so that when things go wrong it's no big deal. - On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 2:54 PM, Tom Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: What is Stopping Poor People From Moving? - The Atlantic
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In reply to this post by Gillian Densmore
Gil- My sympathies are with you. Your father and I (and many others
here) were lucky enough to "come of age" when computing was
(relatively) new and the opportunities were exploding. Many of us
had limited computer science (or even programming)
education/training. We likely had some education in Science or
Engineering and a willingness to learn new things, and Viola! We
had a whole career handed to us. Then we encouraged our kids to
"go into computers" because there was STILL a wealth of
opportunity and a dearth of practitioners. Even the
home-computer and commercial internet revolutions didn't produce
enough practitioners, or at least not as fast as it created a
demand for them. But that era has passed. My own generation hit a lull in the Aerospace industry (80's) which was what many of US were sold on as "the next big thing!". I was born in the year Sputnik went up and was a mere lad of 12 for the moon-landing... and raised on old-school space-opera style Science Fiction. So *of course* I wanted to be a Space Jockey... if not an astronaut, then at least someone who did orbital calculations in their head (or on a computer!) and rode the "last frontier" with style. I might well have NOT spent my life as a computer technologist, had Aerospace options not been so unavailable during my early career (two of my job offers leaving college *were* in aerospace, but 5 years later I couldn't get a callback on my resume/applications). I *think*, in all fields specialization (and
ultra-specialization) is a natural evolution (more than a march of
entropy but in many ways similar?)... so the detailed specs you
see in jobs ARE realistic, as frustrating as that might be. There
really ARE people who happen to have exactly that mix of skills!
Also plenty who are willing/able to "fake it 'til they make it"
which only aggravates the problem IMO. My own daughter (a few
years older than you) is a mid-career Molecular Biologist, which
to ME means a huge range of possibilities, but it turns out that
she moved from Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) for her PhD to
CytoMegalaVirus for her first PostDoc but got diverted to West
Nile/Dingue and now 10 years later feels ONLY qualified to work on
FlaviViruses and microRNA... which I *think* is like 1% of the
field of Molecular Biology. According to her (who really needs a
venue change mid-career), there are probably only a handful of
labs in the world where she could do the work she feels fully
qualified for. I think that is narrowed to like 2 when you
restrict it to her geopolitical preferences, and she is convinced
both of THOSE institutions have no openings, at least not until
someone dies or the entire Executive branch of the US Government
gets turned over (3-8 years?) and NIH/Science funding returns. In CS, widespread adoption of OO programming didn't happen until
I'd already invested a lot of time in developing workarounds in
*procedural* programming (Fortran, then Pascal, then C) to achieve
the results that good ObJC/C++ offered. Similar for functional
(though functional programming languages were more widespread at
that time). But by the 90's *I* was not marketable as a
*programmer*. I could address a LOT of problems that "mere"
programmers were not as equipped for but in fact could barely hold
my own as a programmer when using the familiar toolbox (I STILL
often prefer the old school Unix development environment
Vi/cc/ln/etc over modern IDEs, no matter how much leverage they
offer me, there are just *too many to choose from* as the WedTech
list demonstrates with "flavor of the month"
tools/kits/frameworks. I was an early adopter/practitioner of
network computing (ala Sun's "network IS the computer" and NeXT's
"Network Extensible Window System", all of which is finally
blossoming 30 years later with HTML/HTTP/JS standards normalizing
if not actually maturing. So I'm very familiar with the
paradigms of "modern" systems, but almost entirely lame with
writing a single line of code in support of them in their current
incarnations! I don't know your precise skill set or level of skill with various tools, but I am guessing that despite being a generation behind me, you are suffering from this "embarassment of riches"... there are just TOO MANY different tools/environments to easily master (m)any and it is hard to find the focus to pick the few you could master. My experience with the Computing Technology world is that it is often the *application domain* that helps define what one might do. Outside of programming and computer tools, if you have a specific *passion*, perhaps that would help you channel your limited time? I know that computer games are one of your passions, but that is *also* an overpopulated domain. BTW, these are "first world problems" compared to (poor) folks in
the wake of the recent hurricanes, or a friend of mine from MX who
has managed to renew a seasonal green card as a laborer for 20
years until his last visit to MX this summer. He's now unable to
return (legally) for an unknown period and while he has plenty to
*do* down there, his (extended) family had become dependent on his
high ($15/hr) rate of pay he could command here for his (very)
skilled labor. - Steve On 10/13/17 4:09 PM, Gillian Densmore
wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: What is Stopping Poor People From Moving? - The Atlantic
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In reply to this post by Tom Johnson
There are a number of things that bother me about the article. First, most (poor) people don’t need a bunch of academics to tell them that a higher wage is an illusion if the cost of living is astronomical. Second, regardless of your philosophical position on affordable housing, as hinted at in the last paragraph of the article, if ain’t going to happen. Third, in spite of the high cost of living people are still pouring into CA and NY. Why? That’s the issue of importance. My view is that it’s all about immigration and deferred gratification. The people coming into CA and NY are immigrants both from other countries and other parts of the US. They realize the issue of high cost of living and are willing to take on multiple jobs (think of Uber drivers in San Francisco), take on jobs others don’t want, commute long distances and live in less than ideal circumstances because of the opportunities not necessarily for themselves but for their children and their children’s children. Many of my grandparents’s generation, all of whom were immigrants, came to the US into far worse living conditions than they had in Europe. Those who weren’t willing to make those sacrifices for future generations stayed. That’s still true for many groups today, whether in West Virginia or Latin America or Eastern Europe. The UK is great example of this. In the north there are multiple generations living in poverty in the same places their families have lived for generations while London is full of Eastern Europeans (from the EEU countries). Similar to the US? Housing is even more expensive there. To take a slightly different view from Steve, a large part of the migration to CA, especially after WWII, was to the opportunities offered by free education. For example, my ex-wifes’s family came to CA from Iowa then with six kids, all of whom got college degrees from the California colleges. Wouldn’t have happened if they stayed in Iowa. Yes, things have changed a lot and the present generation often does not have the opportunities mine did. But the solution is not affordable housing. It has to be centered around free education and support for people whose jobs have disappeared. Santa Fe is in a somewhat different situation is that unlike CA and NY there are very few jobs available regardless of your educational level. Affordable housing won’t fix that although it may help keep police, firemen and teachers here. But unless, SF and NM in general does something about education in the state, things are unlikely to get better. Ed _______________________ Ed Angel Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico 1017 Sierra Pinon
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: What is Stopping Poor People From Moving? - The Atlantic
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Sssh Ed you're making sense :P. I'm stuck on the part of why a stable house, food clothing etc are optional. On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 7:32 PM, Edward Angel <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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