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Turning into butter, was RE: faith

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Nick Thompson

Turning into butter, was RE: faith

Steve,

Do you remember in what childhood story, things run round and round a tree
until they turn into butter?

Those things weren't monkeys, weasels, OR MULBERRY BUSHES.

Nick

Hint: No teacher would read this story to a child, nowadays.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Steve Smith
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:23 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith

Doug -

Congratulations on avoiding another opportunity to become someone's hood
ornament!
> Apropo of nothing, of course, except that I retain my faith that they
> are out to get me when I'm on the motorcycle.
However, for the sake of the Monkey, the Weasel and the Mulberry bush, I
contend that your use of the world "faith" here aligns with my use of the
word "Faith" in general and roughly matches what those who I believe you
revile (or at least chide) do. You (as they) choose a *working
statement* which has no basis in fact (has been refuted or at least can't be
verified), but which *works well for you* and the *rhetoric* of the
statement plays well within your community (of other riders who subscribe to
the same Faith).

I think I'm turning to butter.

- Steve

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Victoria Hughes

Re: Turning into butter, was RE: faith

I remember. Hard to forget, and I can still see the illustrations. It
was already Not PC when I saw it. But I read it anyway, I believe in
the library in Manila at the American Church, which was really a
gigantic community center for expats. They also had all of the Wizard
of Oz books, original editions... and other treasures for voracious 6-
year old readers.
Tory

On Sep 24, 2012, at 8:45 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:

> Steve,
>
> Do you remember in what childhood story, things run round and round
> a tree
> until they turn into butter?
>
> Those things weren't monkeys, weasels, OR MULBERRY BUSHES.
>
> Nick
>
> Hint: No teacher would read this story to a child, nowadays.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
> On Behalf
> Of Steve Smith
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:23 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith
>
> Doug -
>
> Congratulations on avoiding another opportunity to become someone's
> hood
> ornament!
>> Apropo of nothing, of course, except that I retain my faith that they
>> are out to get me when I'm on the motorcycle.
> However, for the sake of the Monkey, the Weasel and the Mulberry
> bush, I
> contend that your use of the world "faith" here aligns with my use
> of the
> word "Faith" in general and roughly matches what those who I believe
> you
> revile (or at least chide) do. You (as they) choose a *working
> statement* which has no basis in fact (has been refuted or at least
> can't be
> verified), but which *works well for you* and the *rhetoric* of the
> statement plays well within your community (of other riders who
> subscribe to
> the same Faith).
>
> I think I'm turning to butter.
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures,
> archives,
> unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Steve Smith

Re: Turning into butter, was RE: faith

In reply to this post by Nick Thompson

> Steve,
>
> Do you remember in what childhood story, things run round and round a tree
> until they turn into butter?
My mixed allusions were definitely intentional. The reference of
course, is how we, the FRIAM community are very good at hashing and
rehashing the same material until even those of us doing the hashing
(can you find the etymology for hashing?) are even tired enough of the
sight of our own tails that we might as well turn into butter from all
that agitation.

The story of course, would be "Little Black Sambo" where he lead the
Tigers out to eat him for breakfast to chase one another around a palm
tree until they turned to butter (something about vanity amongst the
tigers who had first stolen his clothing, etc.). This story, of course
is now totally and completely politically incorrect, though the Sambo
was a very dark southern Indian boy I believe as opposed to a Black
African Slave in the southern US as many people assume. (else it would
have been panthers?)

In any case, the restaurant chain "Sambo's" who used the boy and his
tigers as Icons made a mean stack of pancakes with plenty of *butter*
(which as a child I was sure was made of melted tigers). The Chain has
either gone defunct or changed it's name.
> Those things weren't monkeys, weasels, OR MULBERRY BUSHES.
If I can mix metaphors, surely I can mix nursery rhymes and childrens
stories of various origins... when I first heard those stories I had
never seen a weasel, a monkey, a tiger, a mulberry bush or a black
person. And yet somehow the stories made sense... how is THAT for Faith?

Ever hear the one about... Ladle Rat Rotten Hut?
> Hint: No teacher would read this story to a child, nowadays.
My sister had a black life-sized infant doll handed down through the
family, known as a "tar baby" referencing the days when white
slaveholding children were allowed to "play" with slaves' babies... as
if they were dolls. I remember when my mother explained how totally
politically incorrect (there was no term for this, it was just explained
as "wrong headed") the whole situation was... until then, my sister
thought it was "just another doll". I lived in a secluded southwestern
rural area where I'd never seen a "person of color"... well, plenty of
Native Americans and descendents of Spanish Conquistadors, but no
African Americans, and no TV either, though I suppose pictures in
Encyclopedias and Nat'l Geographics?

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
> Of Steve Smith
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:23 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith
>
> Doug -
>
> Congratulations on avoiding another opportunity to become someone's hood
> ornament!
>> Apropo of nothing, of course, except that I retain my faith that they
>> are out to get me when I'm on the motorcycle.
> However, for the sake of the Monkey, the Weasel and the Mulberry bush, I
> contend that your use of the world "faith" here aligns with my use of the
> word "Faith" in general and roughly matches what those who I believe you
> revile (or at least chide) do. You (as they) choose a *working
> statement* which has no basis in fact (has been refuted or at least can't be
> verified), but which *works well for you* and the *rhetoric* of the
> statement plays well within your community (of other riders who subscribe to
> the same Faith).
>
> I think I'm turning to butter.
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
> unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Victoria Hughes

Re: Turning into butter, was RE: faith

LadleRatRottenHut!!!!! Be still my heart.

Brilliant in sooo many ways... Yonder nor sourghum stenches shut ladle
gulls torque wet strainers!
You know, HL Chace wrote/rewrote a number of those. All are beloved
and collected by word-y and book-y people. And of course locally our
own Robin Williams, the woman, the artist, the writer, uses them
copiously in her books on graphic design.

Re Little Black Sambo, and I suppose Suzanne has several copies of it
amongst your bookish walls?

Time to make the donuts.

...good thing this conversation is finally petering out, because
personally I've been feeling like butter for several days...

Tory

On Sep 24, 2012, at 9:18 PM, Steve Smith wrote:

>> Steve,
>>
>> Do you remember in what childhood story, things run round and round
>> a tree
>> until they turn into butter?
> My mixed allusions were definitely intentional. The reference of
> course, is how we, the FRIAM community are very good at hashing and
> rehashing the same material until even those of us doing the hashing
> (can you find the etymology for hashing?) are even tired enough of
> the sight of our own tails that we might as well turn into butter
> from all that agitation.
>
> The story of course, would be "Little Black Sambo" where he lead
> the Tigers out to eat him for breakfast to chase one another around
> a palm tree until they turned to butter (something about vanity
> amongst the tigers who had first stolen his clothing, etc.). This
> story, of course is now totally and completely politically
> incorrect, though the Sambo was a very dark southern Indian boy I
> believe as opposed to a Black African Slave in the southern US as
> many people assume. (else it would have been panthers?)
>
> In any case, the restaurant chain "Sambo's" who used the boy and his
> tigers as Icons made a mean stack of pancakes with plenty of
> *butter* (which as a child I was sure was made of melted tigers).
> The Chain has either gone defunct or changed it's name.
>> Those things weren't monkeys, weasels, OR MULBERRY BUSHES.
> If I can mix metaphors, surely I can mix nursery rhymes and
> childrens stories of various origins... when I first heard those
> stories I had never seen a weasel, a monkey, a tiger, a mulberry
> bush or a black person. And yet somehow the stories made sense...
> how is THAT for Faith?
>
> Ever hear the one about... Ladle Rat Rotten Hut?
>> Hint: No teacher would read this story to a child, nowadays.
> My sister had a black life-sized infant doll handed down through the
> family, known as a "tar baby" referencing the days when white
> slaveholding children were allowed to "play" with slaves' babies...
> as if they were dolls. I remember when my mother explained how
> totally politically incorrect (there was no term for this, it was
> just explained as "wrong headed") the whole situation was... until
> then, my sister thought it was "just another doll". I lived in a
> secluded southwestern rural area where I'd never seen a "person of
> color"... well, plenty of Native Americans and descendents of
> Spanish Conquistadors, but no African Americans, and no TV either,
> though I suppose pictures in Encyclopedias and Nat'l Geographics?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> On Behalf
>> Of Steve Smith
>> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:23 PM
>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith
>>
>> Doug -
>>
>> Congratulations on avoiding another opportunity to become someone's
>> hood
>> ornament!
>>> Apropo of nothing, of course, except that I retain my faith that
>>> they
>>> are out to get me when I'm on the motorcycle.
>> However, for the sake of the Monkey, the Weasel and the Mulberry
>> bush, I
>> contend that your use of the world "faith" here aligns with my use
>> of the
>> word "Faith" in general and roughly matches what those who I
>> believe you
>> revile (or at least chide) do. You (as they) choose a *working
>> statement* which has no basis in fact (has been refuted or at least
>> can't be
>> verified), but which *works well for you* and the *rhetoric* of the
>> statement plays well within your community (of other riders who
>> subscribe to
>> the same Faith).
>>
>> I think I'm turning to butter.
>>
>> - Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures,
>> archives,
>> unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>>
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Nick Thompson

Re: Turning into butter, was RE: faith

In reply to this post by Steve Smith

You're the first other person I have ever met who confessed to having read
Little Black Sambo.

Thank you for that, Steve. [sigh]

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Steve Smith
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:18 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Turning into butter, was RE: faith

> Steve,
>
> Do you remember in what childhood story, things run round and round a
> tree until they turn into butter?
My mixed allusions were definitely intentional. The reference of
course, is how we, the FRIAM community are very good at hashing and
rehashing the same material until even those of us doing the hashing (can
you find the etymology for hashing?) are even tired enough of the sight of
our own tails that we might as well turn into butter from all that
agitation.

The story of course, would be "Little Black Sambo" where he lead the Tigers
out to eat him for breakfast to chase one another around a palm tree until
they turned to butter (something about vanity amongst the
tigers who had first stolen his clothing, etc.). This story, of course
is now totally and completely politically incorrect, though the Sambo was a
very dark southern Indian boy I believe as opposed to a Black African Slave
in the southern US as many people assume. (else it would have been
panthers?)

In any case, the restaurant chain "Sambo's" who used the boy and his tigers
as Icons made a mean stack of pancakes with plenty of *butter* (which as a
child I was sure was made of melted tigers). The Chain has either gone
defunct or changed it's name.
> Those things weren't monkeys, weasels, OR MULBERRY BUSHES.
If I can mix metaphors, surely I can mix nursery rhymes and childrens
stories of various origins... when I first heard those stories I had never
seen a weasel, a monkey, a tiger, a mulberry bush or a black person. And
yet somehow the stories made sense... how is THAT for Faith?

Ever hear the one about... Ladle Rat Rotten Hut?
> Hint: No teacher would read this story to a child, nowadays.
My sister had a black life-sized infant doll handed down through the family,
known as a "tar baby" referencing the days when white slaveholding children
were allowed to "play" with slaves' babies... as
if they were dolls. I remember when my mother explained how totally
politically incorrect (there was no term for this, it was just explained as
"wrong headed") the whole situation was... until then, my sister
thought it was "just another doll". I lived in a secluded southwestern
rural area where I'd never seen a "person of color"... well, plenty of
Native Americans and descendents of Spanish Conquistadors, but no African
Americans, and no TV either, though I suppose pictures in Encyclopedias and
Nat'l Geographics?

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Steve Smith
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:23 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith
>
> Doug -
>
> Congratulations on avoiding another opportunity to become someone's
> hood ornament!
>> Apropo of nothing, of course, except that I retain my faith that they
>> are out to get me when I'm on the motorcycle.
> However, for the sake of the Monkey, the Weasel and the Mulberry bush,
> I contend that your use of the world "faith" here aligns with my use
> of the word "Faith" in general and roughly matches what those who I
> believe you revile (or at least chide) do. You (as they) choose a
> *working
> statement* which has no basis in fact (has been refuted or at least
> can't be verified), but which *works well for you* and the *rhetoric*
> of the statement plays well within your community (of other riders who
> subscribe to the same Faith).
>
> I think I'm turning to butter.
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
> http://www.friam.org
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
> http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Douglas Roberts-2

Re: Turning into butter, was RE: faith

You say that as if butter was a bad thing.

On Sep 24, 2012 9:43 PM, "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]> wrote:

You're the first other person I have ever met who confessed to having read
Little Black Sambo.

Thank you for that, Steve. [sigh]

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Steve Smith
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:18 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Turning into butter, was RE: faith

> Steve,
>
> Do you remember in what childhood story, things run round and round a
> tree until they turn into butter?
My mixed allusions were definitely intentional. The reference of
course, is how we, the FRIAM community are very good at hashing and
rehashing the same material until even those of us doing the hashing (can
you find the etymology for hashing?) are even tired enough of the sight of
our own tails that we might as well turn into butter from all that
agitation.

The story of course, would be "Little Black Sambo" where he lead the Tigers
out to eat him for breakfast to chase one another around a palm tree until
they turned to butter (something about vanity amongst the
tigers who had first stolen his clothing, etc.). This story, of course
is now totally and completely politically incorrect, though the Sambo was a
very dark southern Indian boy I believe as opposed to a Black African Slave
in the southern US as many people assume. (else it would have been
panthers?)

In any case, the restaurant chain "Sambo's" who used the boy and his tigers
as Icons made a mean stack of pancakes with plenty of *butter* (which as a
child I was sure was made of melted tigers). The Chain has either gone
defunct or changed it's name.
> Those things weren't monkeys, weasels, OR MULBERRY BUSHES.
If I can mix metaphors, surely I can mix nursery rhymes and childrens
stories of various origins... when I first heard those stories I had never
seen a weasel, a monkey, a tiger, a mulberry bush or a black person. And
yet somehow the stories made sense... how is THAT for Faith?

Ever hear the one about... Ladle Rat Rotten Hut?
> Hint: No teacher would read this story to a child, nowadays.
My sister had a black life-sized infant doll handed down through the family,
known as a "tar baby" referencing the days when white slaveholding children
were allowed to "play" with slaves' babies... as
if they were dolls. I remember when my mother explained how totally
politically incorrect (there was no term for this, it was just explained as
"wrong headed") the whole situation was... until then, my sister
thought it was "just another doll". I lived in a secluded southwestern
rural area where I'd never seen a "person of color"... well, plenty of
Native Americans and descendents of Spanish Conquistadors, but no African
Americans, and no TV either, though I suppose pictures in Encyclopedias and
Nat'l Geographics?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Steve Smith
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:23 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith
>
> Doug -
>
> Congratulations on avoiding another opportunity to become someone's
> hood ornament!
>> Apropo of nothing, of course, except that I retain my faith that they
>> are out to get me when I'm on the motorcycle.
> However, for the sake of the Monkey, the Weasel and the Mulberry bush,
> I contend that your use of the world "faith" here aligns with my use
> of the word "Faith" in general and roughly matches what those who I
> believe you revile (or at least chide) do. You (as they) choose a
> *working
> statement* which has no basis in fact (has been refuted or at least
> can't be verified), but which *works well for you* and the *rhetoric*
> of the statement plays well within your community (of other riders who
> subscribe to the same Faith).
>
> I think I'm turning to butter.
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
> http://www.friam.org
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
> http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Steve Smith

Re: Turning into butter, was RE: faith

In reply to this post by Nick Thompson

Nick -
> You're the first other person I have ever met who confessed to having read
> Little Black Sambo.
>
> Thank you for that, Steve. [sigh]
And I read it in great delight too! I'm sure we are not alone.
Obviously Tory is with us too.

But did you ever eat pancakes at the restaurant by that name?

>
> Nick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
> Of Steve Smith
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:18 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Turning into butter, was RE: faith
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> Do you remember in what childhood story, things run round and round a
>> tree until they turn into butter?
> My mixed allusions were definitely intentional. The reference of
> course, is how we, the FRIAM community are very good at hashing and
> rehashing the same material until even those of us doing the hashing (can
> you find the etymology for hashing?) are even tired enough of the sight of
> our own tails that we might as well turn into butter from all that
> agitation.
>
> The story of course, would be "Little Black Sambo" where he lead the Tigers
> out to eat him for breakfast to chase one another around a palm tree until
> they turned to butter (something about vanity amongst the
> tigers who had first stolen his clothing, etc.). This story, of course
> is now totally and completely politically incorrect, though the Sambo was a
> very dark southern Indian boy I believe as opposed to a Black African Slave
> in the southern US as many people assume. (else it would have been
> panthers?)
>
> In any case, the restaurant chain "Sambo's" who used the boy and his tigers
> as Icons made a mean stack of pancakes with plenty of *butter* (which as a
> child I was sure was made of melted tigers). The Chain has either gone
> defunct or changed it's name.
>> Those things weren't monkeys, weasels, OR MULBERRY BUSHES.
> If I can mix metaphors, surely I can mix nursery rhymes and childrens
> stories of various origins... when I first heard those stories I had never
> seen a weasel, a monkey, a tiger, a mulberry bush or a black person. And
> yet somehow the stories made sense... how is THAT for Faith?
>
> Ever hear the one about... Ladle Rat Rotten Hut?
>> Hint: No teacher would read this story to a child, nowadays.
> My sister had a black life-sized infant doll handed down through the family,
> known as a "tar baby" referencing the days when white slaveholding children
> were allowed to "play" with slaves' babies... as
> if they were dolls. I remember when my mother explained how totally
> politically incorrect (there was no term for this, it was just explained as
> "wrong headed") the whole situation was... until then, my sister
> thought it was "just another doll". I lived in a secluded southwestern
> rural area where I'd never seen a "person of color"... well, plenty of
> Native Americans and descendents of Spanish Conquistadors, but no African
> Americans, and no TV either, though I suppose pictures in Encyclopedias and
> Nat'l Geographics?
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>> Behalf Of Steve Smith
>> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:23 PM
>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith
>>
>> Doug -
>>
>> Congratulations on avoiding another opportunity to become someone's
>> hood ornament!
>>> Apropo of nothing, of course, except that I retain my faith that they
>>> are out to get me when I'm on the motorcycle.
>> However, for the sake of the Monkey, the Weasel and the Mulberry bush,
>> I contend that your use of the world "faith" here aligns with my use
>> of the word "Faith" in general and roughly matches what those who I
>> believe you revile (or at least chide) do. You (as they) choose a
>> *working
>> statement* which has no basis in fact (has been refuted or at least
>> can't be verified), but which *works well for you* and the *rhetoric*
>> of the statement plays well within your community (of other riders who
>> subscribe to the same Faith).
>>
>> I think I'm turning to butter.
>>
>> - Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
>> at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
>> http://www.friam.org
>>
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
>> at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
>> http://www.friam.org
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
> unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Pamela McCorduck

Re: Turning into butter, was RE: faith

In reply to this post by Nick Thompson

Nick, that was Little Black Sambo, who chased the tigers around a tree until they turned into butter.

I think children aren't allowed to read that any more, but having a childhood during colonial times, I was allowed.

Pamela

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:45 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:

Steve,

Do you remember in what childhood story, things run round and round a tree
until they turn into butter?

Those things weren't monkeys, weasels, OR MULBERRY BUSHES.

Nick

Hint: No teacher would read this story to a child, nowadays.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Steve Smith
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:23 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith

Doug -

Congratulations on avoiding another opportunity to become someone's hood
ornament!
Apropo of nothing, of course, except that I retain my faith that they
are out to get me when I'm on the motorcycle.
However, for the sake of the Monkey, the Weasel and the Mulberry bush, I
contend that your use of the world "faith" here aligns with my use of the
word "Faith" in general and roughly matches what those who I believe you
revile (or at least chide) do. You (as they) choose a *working
statement* which has no basis in fact (has been refuted or at least can't be
verified), but which *works well for you* and the *rhetoric* of the
statement plays well within your community (of other riders who subscribe to
the same Faith).

I think I'm turning to butter.

- Steve

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

"Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that station will be held by anybody else, these pages must show."

Charles Dickens, opening lines of David Copperfield

Pamela McCorduck

Re: Turning into butter, was RE: faith

Sorry, reading mail late, so didn't realize several people had already answered Nick.

On Sep 25, 2012, at 10:13 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:

Nick, that was Little Black Sambo, who chased the tigers around a tree until they turned into butter.

I think children aren't allowed to read that any more, but having a childhood during colonial times, I was allowed.

Pamela
On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:45 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:

Steve,

Do you remember in what childhood story, things run round and round a tree
until they turn into butter?

Those things weren't monkeys, weasels, OR MULBERRY BUSHES.

Nick

Hint: No teacher would read this story to a child, nowadays.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Steve Smith
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:23 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith

Doug -

Congratulations on avoiding another opportunity to become someone's hood
ornament!
Apropo of nothing, of course, except that I retain my faith that they
are out to get me when I'm on the motorcycle.
However, for the sake of the Monkey, the Weasel and the Mulberry bush, I
contend that your use of the world "faith" here aligns with my use of the
word "Faith" in general and roughly matches what those who I believe you
revile (or at least chide) do. You (as they) choose a *working
statement* which has no basis in fact (has been refuted or at least can't be
verified), but which *works well for you* and the *rhetoric* of the
statement plays well within your community (of other riders who subscribe to
the same Faith).

I think I'm turning to butter.

- Steve

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
"Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that station will be held by anybody else, these pages must show."

Charles Dickens, opening lines of David Copperfield
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

"Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that station will be held by anybody else, these pages must show."

Charles Dickens, opening lines of David Copperfield

Nick Thompson

Re: Turning into butter, was RE: faith

In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2

No, butter is good. I am sad that so much of the children’s literature that I loved as a kid, cannot now be read to children without having to make exuses and explanations. Nick

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Douglas Roberts
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:49 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Turning into butter, was RE: faith

You say that as if butter was a bad thing.

On Sep 24, 2012 9:43 PM, "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Nick Thompson

Re: Turning into butter, was RE: faith

In reply to this post by Pamela McCorduck

Pamela,

I liked learning that so many of us had that common base. Nick

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Pamela McCorduck
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:16 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Turning into butter, was RE: faith

Sorry, reading mail late, so didn't realize several people had already answered Nick.

On Sep 25, 2012, at 10:13 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:

Nick, that was Little Black Sambo, who chased the tigers around a tree until they turned into butter.

I think children aren't allowed to read that any more, but having a childhood during colonial times, I was allowed.

Pamela

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:45 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:

Apropo of nothing, of course, except that I retain my faith that they

are out to get me when I'm on the motorcycle.

However, for the sake of the Monkey, the Weasel and the Mulberry bush, I
contend that your use of the world "faith" here aligns with my use of the
word "Faith" in general and roughly matches what those who I believe you
revile (or at least chide) do. You (as they) choose a *working
statement* which has no basis in fact (has been refuted or at least can't be
verified), but which *works well for you* and the *rhetoric* of the
statement plays well within your community (of other riders who subscribe to
the same Faith).

I think I'm turning to butter.

- Steve

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

"Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that station will be held by anybody else, these pages must show."

Charles Dickens, opening lines of David Copperfield

"Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that station will be held by anybody else, these pages must show."

Charles Dickens, opening lines of David Copperfield

Roger Critchlow-2

Re: Turning into butter, was RE: faith

In reply to this post by Steve Smith

I read it, too, probably in a church sponsored day-care in the DC suburbs in the fifties, or at my grandparents' houses.

And I remember the restaurant, though I don't remember ever stopping in for a stack.

-- rec --

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 9:53 PM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Nick -

You're the first other person I have ever met who confessed to having read
Little Black Sambo.

Thank you for that, Steve. [sigh]

And I read it in great delight too! I'm sure we are not alone. Obviously Tory is with us too.

But did you ever eat pancakes at the restaurant by that name?

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Steve Smith
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:18 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Turning into butter, was RE: faith

Steve,

Do you remember in what childhood story, things run round and round a
tree until they turn into butter?

My mixed allusions were definitely intentional. The reference of
course, is how we, the FRIAM community are very good at hashing and
rehashing the same material until even those of us doing the hashing (can
you find the etymology for hashing?) are even tired enough of the sight of
our own tails that we might as well turn into butter from all that
agitation.

The story of course, would be "Little Black Sambo" where he lead the Tigers
out to eat him for breakfast to chase one another around a palm tree until
they turned to butter (something about vanity amongst the
tigers who had first stolen his clothing, etc.). This story, of course
is now totally and completely politically incorrect, though the Sambo was a
very dark southern Indian boy I believe as opposed to a Black African Slave
in the southern US as many people assume. (else it would have been
panthers?)

In any case, the restaurant chain "Sambo's" who used the boy and his tigers
as Icons made a mean stack of pancakes with plenty of *butter* (which as a
child I was sure was made of melted tigers). The Chain has either gone
defunct or changed it's name.

Those things weren't monkeys, weasels, OR MULBERRY BUSHES.

If I can mix metaphors, surely I can mix nursery rhymes and childrens
stories of various origins... when I first heard those stories I had never
seen a weasel, a monkey, a tiger, a mulberry bush or a black person. And
yet somehow the stories made sense... how is THAT for Faith?

Ever hear the one about... Ladle Rat Rotten Hut?

Hint: No teacher would read this story to a child, nowadays.

My sister had a black life-sized infant doll handed down through the family,
known as a "tar baby" referencing the days when white slaveholding children
were allowed to "play" with slaves' babies... as
if they were dolls. I remember when my mother explained how totally
politically incorrect (there was no term for this, it was just explained as
"wrong headed") the whole situation was... until then, my sister
thought it was "just another doll". I lived in a secluded southwestern
rural area where I'd never seen a "person of color"... well, plenty of
Native Americans and descendents of Spanish Conquistadors, but no African
Americans, and no TV either, though I suppose pictures in Encyclopedias and
Nat'l Geographics?

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:23 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith

Doug -

Congratulations on avoiding another opportunity to become someone's
hood ornament!

Apropo of nothing, of course, except that I retain my faith that they
are out to get me when I'm on the motorcycle.

However, for the sake of the Monkey, the Weasel and the Mulberry bush,
I contend that your use of the world "faith" here aligns with my use
of the word "Faith" in general and roughly matches what those who I
believe you revile (or at least chide) do. You (as they) choose a
*working
statement* which has no basis in fact (has been refuted or at least
can't be verified), but which *works well for you* and the *rhetoric*
of the statement plays well within your community (of other riders who
subscribe to the same Faith).

I think I'm turning to butter.

- Steve

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Steve Smith

Re: Turning into butter, was RE: faith

In reply to this post by Nick Thompson

No, butter is good. I am sad that so much of the children’s literature that I loved as a kid, cannot now be read to children without having to make exuses and explanations. Nick

I think it is a shame that some of these things have been "expunged" or "redacted", but I accept the cultural sensitivity driving those actions. As a Haoli, Whitey, Gringo, Gaijin, Farange, White-eyes, etc... I know a *little* of what it means to be excluded or dismissed for superficial characteristics like appearance or race or origin, and don't wish that on anyone. I don't want to pretend that what is popularly called "reverse discrimination" is exactly the same... but I think it carries some of the message.

When my mother explained my sister's "Tar Baby" to her, it was a good thing... she didn't take it from her or give her any sense of personal shame about the whole thing... it was delivered as a "by the way" which I at least took for what it was worth I think. Unfortunately, later, when my sister decided to start dating a college friend whose father was african-american and mother was hispanic, they did some funny throat clearing and foot shuffling that strongly implied that no matter what they said, they made it clear through their actions that xenophobia can't be eliminated as easily as all that.

While I don't think I had any slaveholders in my ancestry, they did come from a nation which still accepted if not universally embraced the concept. (Ole black Joe is still pikkin cotton for your buttons and bows, everybody knows... L. Cohen) My own ancestors were more likely to have spent a year or two of indenture to get from "the old country" and maybe even made a run for the Cumberland Gap to escape such treatment... moonshiners and tobacco farmers as I understand them.

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Douglas Roberts
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:49 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Turning into butter, was RE: faith

You say that as if butter was a bad thing.

On Sep 24, 2012 9:43 PM, "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]> wrote:

You're the first other person I have ever met who confessed to having read
Little Black Sambo.

Thank you for that, Steve. [sigh]

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Steve Smith
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:18 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Turning into butter, was RE: faith

> Steve,
>
> Do you remember in what childhood story, things run round and round a
> tree until they turn into butter?
My mixed allusions were definitely intentional. The reference of
course, is how we, the FRIAM community are very good at hashing and
rehashing the same material until even those of us doing the hashing (can
you find the etymology for hashing?) are even tired enough of the sight of
our own tails that we might as well turn into butter from all that
agitation.

The story of course, would be "Little Black Sambo" where he lead the Tigers
out to eat him for breakfast to chase one another around a palm tree until
they turned to butter (something about vanity amongst the
tigers who had first stolen his clothing, etc.). This story, of course
is now totally and completely politically incorrect, though the Sambo was a
very dark southern Indian boy I believe as opposed to a Black African Slave
in the southern US as many people assume. (else it would have been
panthers?)

In any case, the restaurant chain "Sambo's" who used the boy and his tigers
as Icons made a mean stack of pancakes with plenty of *butter* (which as a
child I was sure was made of melted tigers). The Chain has either gone
defunct or changed it's name.
> Those things weren't monkeys, weasels, OR MULBERRY BUSHES.
If I can mix metaphors, surely I can mix nursery rhymes and childrens
stories of various origins... when I first heard those stories I had never
seen a weasel, a monkey, a tiger, a mulberry bush or a black person. And
yet somehow the stories made sense... how is THAT for Faith?

Ever hear the one about... Ladle Rat Rotten Hut?
> Hint: No teacher would read this story to a child, nowadays.
My sister had a black life-sized infant doll handed down through the family,
known as a "tar baby" referencing the days when white slaveholding children
were allowed to "play" with slaves' babies... as
if they were dolls. I remember when my mother explained how totally
politically incorrect (there was no term for this, it was just explained as
"wrong headed") the whole situation was... until then, my sister
thought it was "just another doll". I lived in a secluded southwestern
rural area where I'd never seen a "person of color"... well, plenty of
Native Americans and descendents of Spanish Conquistadors, but no African
Americans, and no TV either, though I suppose pictures in Encyclopedias and
Nat'l Geographics?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Steve Smith
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:23 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith
>
> Doug -
>
> Congratulations on avoiding another opportunity to become someone's
> hood ornament!
>> Apropo of nothing, of course, except that I retain my faith that they
>> are out to get me when I'm on the motorcycle.
> However, for the sake of the Monkey, the Weasel and the Mulberry bush,
> I contend that your use of the world "faith" here aligns with my use
> of the word "Faith" in general and roughly matches what those who I
> believe you revile (or at least chide) do. You (as they) choose a
> *working
> statement* which has no basis in fact (has been refuted or at least
> can't be verified), but which *works well for you* and the *rhetoric*
> of the statement plays well within your community (of other riders who
> subscribe to the same Faith).
>
> I think I'm turning to butter.
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
> http://www.friam.org
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
> http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org