Trump Support
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The Economist sez:
I've wanted to know if Trump voters hang onto him after all the harm he's done to them. Apparently they are like this tweet:  -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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Oh and as funny quirk: POTUS aproval now (roughly 20-25%) is about the same number that thought it was a good idea to (try to) fire BClinton for liking women and having a fight with Gangrich. The number of people that are asking Washington to do a Referendum and Special election (about 55-60%) Is the same number that called for Nixons resignation, asked if Raegan was sane: Source: George Takai's twitter feed. On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by Owen Densmore
I'm inclined to call that articlet "fake news". 8^) YouGov has a good rating with 538 (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/). But I can't help but wonder about the one-sidedness of the articlet. Why only include those 2 (or 7 ... or 8, or whatever it was) questions? Where's the fine-print link to the poll and its analysis? Maybe I missed it. Etc. Regardless, I have 2 reactions: 1) Excellent! The more the flat-earthers flock together and reinforce their batsh!t delusions, the more obvious it becomes to anyone how delusional they are. Maybe they'll even go all "Heaven's Gate" and suffocate themselves from all the methane[†]. 2) It's not so much self-defeating on the R's part as it is our (every one of us) inability to think about complex things. I posit the tendency to trust Trump will correlate with the tendency to prefer oversimplification. [‡] But the same would apply to any chant you might hear at a liberal march/rally. Anyone who enjoys those stupid chants is enjoying oversimplification. [†] https://youtu.be/BPC7e8W8u18 [‡] I feel the same way about "tl;dr" and people who overvalue the disgusting concept of 'pithyness' and/or sayings like "brevity is the soul of wit". No, it's an indicator of ADHD you aphorism-obsessed @#$%. >8^D On 08/03/2017 12:23 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: > The Economist sez: > > We asked YouGov, a pollster, to survey 1,500 Americans about Donald Trump > and several national media outlets. When Republicans were asked whether > they trusted Mr Trump more than the New York Times, Washington Post or CNN, > 70% sided with the president each time. Republicans now loathe these > outlets so much that nearly half would be glad to see unconstitutional > means used to silence them, writes our data team > > > https://goo.gl/Xmfqcr > > > I've wanted to know if Trump voters hang onto him after all the harm he's > done to them. Apparently they are like this tweet: > [image: Inline image 1] -- ☣ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Nice to have you back, Glen. Frank Wimberly Phone (505) 670-9918 On Aug 3, 2017 1:54 PM, "glen ☣" <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by gepr
Glen writes:
" I posit the tendency to trust Trump will correlate with the tendency to prefer oversimplification. [‡] But the same would apply to any chant you might hear at a liberal march/rally. Anyone who enjoys those stupid chants is enjoying oversimplification."
People talk about `playing by the rules' like it is a good thing. But is fulfillment of an old or obsolete social contract (get married, get a soul-destroying job, and make babies) really something to be honored? Some reason to lock-out cheaper or more-skilled workers in their favor? It seems to me little more than fear of failure, and an absence of curiosity. A bunch of people that take pride in their ability to truncate the world into a set of rules that can be conveyed by using a belt or a chant, and while intoxicated.
Marcus From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of glen ☣ <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2017 1:54:05 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Trump Support I'm inclined to call that articlet "fake news". 8^) YouGov has a good rating with 538 (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/). But I can't help but wonder about the one-sidedness of the articlet. Why only include those 2 (or 7 ... or 8, or whatever it was) questions? Where's the fine-print link to the poll and its analysis? Maybe I missed it. Etc. Regardless, I have 2 reactions: 1) Excellent! The more the flat-earthers flock together and reinforce their batsh!t delusions, the more obvious it becomes to anyone how delusional they are. Maybe they'll even go all "Heaven's Gate" and suffocate themselves from all the methane[†]. 2) It's not so much self-defeating on the R's part as it is our (every one of us) inability to think about complex things. I posit the tendency to trust Trump will correlate with the tendency to prefer oversimplification. [‡] But the same would apply to any chant you might hear at a liberal march/rally. Anyone who enjoys those stupid chants is enjoying oversimplification. [†] https://youtu.be/BPC7e8W8u18 [‡] I feel the same way about "tl;dr" and people who overvalue the disgusting concept of 'pithyness' and/or sayings like "brevity is the soul of wit". No, it's an indicator of ADHD you aphorism-obsessed @#$%. >8^D On 08/03/2017 12:23 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: > The Economist sez: > > We asked YouGov, a pollster, to survey 1,500 Americans about Donald Trump > and several national media outlets. When Republicans were asked whether > they trusted Mr Trump more than the New York Times, Washington Post or CNN, > 70% sided with the president each time. Republicans now loathe these > outlets so much that nearly half would be glad to see unconstitutional > means used to silence them, writes our data team > > > https://goo.gl/Xmfqcr > > > I've wanted to know if Trump voters hang onto him after all the harm he's > done to them. Apparently they are like this tweet: > [image: Inline image 1] -- ☣ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by gepr
Except that despite Drumpf was batshit crazy in the 80s. He seems to have gone more batshit crazy with possible altimerz and dementia issues. My scary click this morning durrning routine taichI? He is mimicing others and parts of his sane(ER) self the same way Raegen did in the 80s. I hope we don't need a repeat of the weird polotics of then to see how this could play out. Let's put this into perspective: of the roughtly 60% or so that could vote 8 months ago. Only 15% a small very friegtened number of people looking around at clay colord humans going about their lives. Their reaction? Feer and terror and for what ever reasons not able to consider: those clay skined people are just going about their day to day lifes. Plus their's about 500 or so dicks in Washignton that have a very conservertive view the world. The rest of us see these people as just people. I clearly enjoy company of some of them otherwise I wouldn't enjoy beer with them and treet them as possible freends, One of those guys even helped fix my phone. For me the issue is simple: 45. Is fucking nuts. He was nuts in the 80's and gone even more bat fucking shit crazy somehow. Acording to tweats from Luan and Takei they recenlty added charges of espenage and attempted blackmail to the reasons for impeachment. (Aka went full nixon and Raegon on us) It's possible that might reason enough for congress to ask for his resignation. I have no idea what the rules say about that. Kamilla Harris and Maxine Waters have asked a few times to use Nixon as historical president for congress to ask that POTUS resign. Suposedly so did sanders. On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:54 PM, glen ☣ <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by gepr
Glen -
Thanks for your analysis. I suffer mightily on the axis of over-simplification to over-complication. I suffer it personally (making bad choices, mostly biased toward complification) and by proxy (suffering friends and colleagues who operate on some other region of that axes, often barely overlapping (in a fuzzy distribution kinda way)). Once Trump was in and his shenanigans started coming home to roost on all of us (including the joke about Trumpsters shoothing themselves in the dick because liberals hate it so much) I quit talking politics with my Trumpsketeer friends. Some of it is simple embarrassment for them. When Trump was all promises (threats) and no action and even when his actions hadn't produced (negative nor positive) results, I felt inclined to debate the issues with them if only a little. Now that the obvious (and not so obvious) results are starting to hit the floor (like the proverbial "other shoe" but from a millipede, not a biped), I guess I recognize that I would be throwing good energy after bad to do so. I DO occasionally debate (discuss?) with my friends/colleagues who I know not to be taken in in any way at all by the Donald and his Cronies, some of the unexpected consequences and some of the possible alternate paths to a brighter future that nobody in their right mind could have positioned us for as well as our Lunatic in Chief has. I used to think of Trump as "a loose cannon on deck" and while I was (mildly) happy to see *some* of the junk on deck cleared off by his wild careening, I was worried about him snapping the masts, destroying the wheelhouse, hulling and then knocking all the lifeboats overboard, etc. I still worry a bit about all of that, but am finding him to be a much "lighter weight" cannon than I feared. He seems completely incapable of picking a good enough strategy to get ANYTHING he seeks and he doesn't have the followthrough to actually cash in on his occasional (accidental/blundering?) successes. For example, does our Brinksman in Chief puffing his chest and waving his tiny fist at the Kleptocrat in Chief (Putin) and the WhackJob in Chief (Kim Jung Un) somehow set the stage for a global nuclear disarmament (or at least de-escalation)? We have been running on (n times over) MAD for many decades and we are finally faced with at least one MAD actor with nukes whose use of same would trigger not Mutual Destruction but Unilateral Destruction and Regional Disaster (wherever Kim Jung might hurl his one (or two) Nukes?) I'm pretty sure the Donald (with the support of the Joint Chiefs) wouldn't blink at the prospect of vaporizing the capitol and a few other choice locations with only the mildest concession for not immediately harming SoKo or Japanese or Chinese citizens. Kaesong and Sinuiju being likely exempt due to their proximity to these countries? Another example is his rabid "tear down ObamaCare" leading us toward a confrontation where Medicare-for-All or another version of Single-Payer health care becomes inevitable? And is his flat-earth Climate Denial scaring even those who believe in it but won't acknowledge it for their own personal/business greed interests? Might the torch for this movement move significantly out of Government hands? Will there be a huge backlash swing as soon as the Blue/Green folks can get control over the legislative branch again? Trump can cause a LOT of trouble in 4 years perhaps, but the backlash to his nonsense might very well recover greater than if he'd never mucked things up? Reminds me of the trick when arm-wrestling someone who is well matched, of "pretending" to give way just a tiny bit and being able to overcome the opponents dynamic strength more effectively than their static strength. It has been noted that the previous 8 years trained the Republicans to be entirely reactive and obstructionist, and are now having a huge problem doing anything actually constructive (especially while watching their own back from the Trumpster and company). I'm probably just singing my usual Pollyanna song here, but I guess I really like the tune! - Steve On 8/3/17 1:54 PM, glen ☣ wrote: > I'm inclined to call that articlet "fake news". 8^) YouGov has a good rating with 538 (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/). But I can't help but wonder about the one-sidedness of the articlet. Why only include those 2 (or 7 ... or 8, or whatever it was) questions? Where's the fine-print link to the poll and its analysis? Maybe I missed it. Etc. > > Regardless, I have 2 reactions: 1) Excellent! The more the flat-earthers flock together and reinforce their batsh!t delusions, the more obvious it becomes to anyone how delusional they are. Maybe they'll even go all "Heaven's Gate" and suffocate themselves from all the methane[†]. 2) It's not so much self-defeating on the R's part as it is our (every one of us) inability to think about complex things. I posit the tendency to trust Trump will correlate with the tendency to prefer oversimplification. [‡] But the same would apply to any chant you might hear at a liberal march/rally. Anyone who enjoys those stupid chants is enjoying oversimplification. > > > > [†] https://youtu.be/BPC7e8W8u18 > [‡] I feel the same way about "tl;dr" and people who overvalue the disgusting concept of 'pithyness' and/or sayings like "brevity is the soul of wit". No, it's an indicator of ADHD you aphorism-obsessed @#$%. >8^D > > On 08/03/2017 12:23 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: >> The Economist sez: >> >> We asked YouGov, a pollster, to survey 1,500 Americans about Donald Trump >> and several national media outlets. When Republicans were asked whether >> they trusted Mr Trump more than the New York Times, Washington Post or CNN, >> 70% sided with the president each time. Republicans now loathe these >> outlets so much that nearly half would be glad to see unconstitutional >> means used to silence them, writes our data team >> >> >> https://goo.gl/Xmfqcr >> >> >> I've wanted to know if Trump voters hang onto him after all the harm he's >> done to them. Apparently they are like this tweet: >> [image: Inline image 1] > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by gepr
On 08/03/2017 01:07 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Nice to have you back, Glen. Thanks! On 08/03/2017 01:19 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > People talk about `playing by the rules' like it is a good thing. But is fulfillment of an old or obsolete social contract (get married, get a soul-destroying job, and make babies) really something to be honored? Some reason to lock-out cheaper or more-skilled workers in their favor? It seems to me little more than fear of failure, and an absence of curiosity. A bunch of people that take pride in their ability to truncate the world into a set of rules that can be conveyed by using a belt or a chant, and while intoxicated. I agree completely. My Trump-loving, CEO-hating, corporation-fearing, Christ-loving, walking contradiction of a neighbor talked about how the "justice system has been destroyed", criminals get off, corrupt politicians get away with it, etc. I told him of my DUI arrest after I was diagnosed (and drank too much yapping with a friend about death) and the circumstances of it. My claim was that, back in Texas, when I was a kid, the cop would have locked up my motorcycle and driven me home ... probably to turn up the next morning to yell at me. But regardless of any sympathy the cop might have had for my circumstances, they're simply not allowed to do that sort of thing (at least not with ordinary people). They'd be fired or go to jail themselves (or think they would). After my neighbor finished his rant about the justice system, I told him that story and followed up with my rant about "jury of your peers" ... the gist being that context is king, details are important. And you want a) a good dialectic between the state and your lawyer and b) to be judged by those (morons) you live with. You want that. He then agreed and told a story about some conflicted feelings he had over a personally relevant murder trial. So, he ended up agreeing that, perhaps, the justice system isn't so broken after all. [sigh] Then I told him about a recent article that showed judges were more likely to grant probation if they had recently eaten and less likely if they were hungry. So, he, again, flipped and began ranting about how broken the justice system is. Anyhooo .... it devolved, as it always does, into him a) extolling his tendency to argue against deontological Christians who think their pet rule is in the bible and b) complaining about how Catholics and Muslims are too flexible in their interpretations of their respective rulesets ... despite his never having heard of Hadith or anything of the sort. Oh well. On 08/03/2017 01:33 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote: > For me the issue is simple: 45. Is fucking nuts. He was nuts in the 80's > and gone even more bat fucking shit crazy somehow. I'm not so sure. In my off moments, I can't help but think I'd end up in the same situation if, for whatever reason, the job landed in my lap. I feel the same way here on this list, surrounded by people way smarter than me ... especially when I say stupid things off the cuff, just like Trump. I can even empathize (by imputation) with some of what I think Trump meant when he said various things that seem stupid for a politician to say. I may be slightly more academic than Trump and try to speak more clearly and steadily. But you don't have to be crazy to be really really bad at something. He's incompetent and should never have been elected. To me, that's really the deepest, trustable, statement we can make. Personally, his election seems to me like more of the same: Rich people have the power ... and having money doesn't imply you're competent at anything. On 08/03/2017 01:40 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: > Reminds me of the trick when arm-wrestling someone who is well matched, of "pretending" to give way just a tiny bit and being able to overcome the opponents dynamic strength more effectively than their static strength. I hope you're right. I even wrote a response to a post the other day reflecting that... basically, that Trump (and the racists, neo-reactionaries, sovereign citizens, etc.) are the resistance, not the liberals. If we empathize with the pathetic, frightened, little moron homunculi that drive all these people, imagine how you'd feel to look around and see all the progress we've made over the last 100, 1000, or 10k years. Really, the liberals are winning, thank Yog. -- ☣ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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