Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities
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Re: Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities
 
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My personal belief/preference is that withholding adequate internet access is like withholding public transportation, education, health care or nutrition. Now
_I_ had to make due with a 300 baud modem as a young person, so in some sense the expectations I’m hearing here are hilarious (_gigabit_ Ethernet, seriously?). But that 300 baud modem was nonetheless transformative for me and so I have relatively
strong opinions on the value of bring information to rural users, whether that is BBS, internet , or just a book mobile. I see no reason to distinguish between work and entertainment uses. Would you like it if police pulled you over on the highway (as opposed to the information
highway) to see if you were going to a movie instead of to work? It’s not a huge cost to overbuild a bit compared to the infrastructure issues in Flint, Michigan or earthquake preparations in Seaside Oregon, or any of thousand things that are teetering on
or past the edge of catastrophe in this country. A conservative might say there is trade off to be made. I would just call them cheapskates. But back in the rural area where I grew up, prior generations realized right away they would have nothing if
they didn’t form a telephone co-op. Now they are deploying fiber to the home and many homes have had internet TV for years. Because they wanted to. So my takeaway is: Just decide you want to.. From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]]
On Behalf Of Nick Thompson Hi, Marcus,
Wait. Hang on. I was actually trying to present arguments in a colorful way, not being personal. I hope you saw that. I wasn’t trying to characterize you,
or anybody else, really. Not even me. I am not my Inner Luddite. At least, I hope not.
My fantasy about “interactive pornography” was not directed toward any person, but was an attempt to stimulate the network neutrality discussion at the Municipal
level. I was interested in stimulating the list to discuss the question: Are we obligated to provide expanded bandwidth for all activities equally I actually don’t know what I think about that question, which is why I want to hear it discussed. Is there any legitimate argument to be made for the equivalent
of “emergency vehicles” on the “information super-highway”? Or HOV lanes. Is there really no way to distinguish between work and entertainment?
Any time a City issues a bond or appropriates funds, it constitutes a collective action, right? So then, collective benefit presumably comes into play, if only
of the “you scratch my back and I will scratch yours” kind. So then, we get to make arguments about the relative benefits to a community (or the individuals in it) of different potential allocations. That’s all I meant by “moral urgency”, when push comes
to shove. I suppose from Ting’s point of view, it’s all irrelevant. The more use the better.
Again my apologies for being annoying. You have made several very helpful contributions to this thread, and I would hate to lose you.
Thanks,
Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University From: Friam [[hidden email]]
On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Actually my inner nihilist says, “Who gives a damn about your moral urgency?” No one is obligated to do anything in this situation. The advocates get what they want, or fail to.
From: Friam [[hidden email]]
On Behalf Of Nick Thompson Marcus,
I now realize that my Inner Luddite is actually quite a puritan. He says, “Are any of the activities you describe morally urgent”.
I think your Inner Libertarian replies, “Who gives a damn for your Inner Luddite?! It’s not for us to police other’s behavior.” To which my Inner Luddite replies, “Ok. But are we obligated to provide expanded bandwidth for all activities equally?” Like all Puritans, my Inner Luddite has a filthy imagination. Let us imagine a new genre of interactive pornography which requires 1 gig responsivity. Let’s
imagine that a marketing survey shows that 60 percent of high band width use will consist of interactive pornography. Is the mayor of Plymouth Massachusetts obligated to facilitate the installation of 1 gig service in her town?
N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University From: Friam [[hidden email]]
On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels There are a variety of technologies, ranging from Ethernet-based frame buffer device drivers (Userful for Linux), to extended RDP protocols (RemoteFX for Windows).
Google Chromecast or the NetFlix capabilities integrated into Smart TVs are similar, although they are more oriented toward delivery of compressed video streams where users don’t care so much about artifacts. Latency is more of a problem for interactive use.
It doesn’t matter if a video stream for television is delayed by a second, but it is impossible to use such a thing for a desktop computer or most games. Services like Playstation Now (simple protocols integrated into new televisions) have to deal with latency.
High performance networking needs to deal with not just bandwidth (download times), but also reducing latency. From: Friam [[hidden email]]
On Behalf Of Gillian Densmore Huh this zero client thing reminds me of a X11 stunt Skunkworks had. Basically a computer (Fred) could somehow talk to other computers so that what ever you did was just like it was right there on Ruby, John or who evers computer. It rocked! My testing was mostly on the gaming end since LAN parties were a both useful and fun way to test it out and find gremlins.
On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities
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Thanks, Marcus, The rural co-operative thing interests me. Half the year I live in rural Massachusetts. There the problem is not that there isn’t fiber around. It is that Verizon has sucked the heart out of the market by running stripes of fibre here and there, but not going to the effort to connect anybody who is not 100 feet from the pole. The rest of us have to get our I-net service by dial up or cell tower. The connections to the Cell tower are metered, so that if you fall asleep at your computer and it decides to download an update, you could wake up from your nap with a 150 dollar phone bill. The whole thing is nerve wracking and stupid. But still, I doubt that one could get a rural coop thing going in MA because a significant proportion of each community doesn’t have a problem. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels My personal belief/preference is that withholding adequate internet access is like withholding public transportation, education, health care or nutrition. Now _I_ had to make due with a 300 baud modem as a young person, so in some sense the expectations I’m hearing here are hilarious (_gigabit_ Ethernet, seriously?). But that 300 baud modem was nonetheless transformative for me and so I have relatively strong opinions on the value of bring information to rural users, whether that is BBS, internet , or just a book mobile. I see no reason to distinguish between work and entertainment uses. Would you like it if police pulled you over on the highway (as opposed to the information highway) to see if you were going to a movie instead of to work? It’s not a huge cost to overbuild a bit compared to the infrastructure issues in Flint, Michigan or earthquake preparations in Seaside Oregon, or any of thousand things that are teetering on or past the edge of catastrophe in this country. A conservative might say there is trade off to be made. I would just call them cheapskates. But back in the rural area where I grew up, prior generations realized right away they would have nothing if they didn’t form a telephone co-op. Now they are deploying fiber to the home and many homes have had internet TV for years. Because they wanted to. So my takeaway is: Just decide you want to.. From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Nick Thompson Hi, Marcus, Wait. Hang on. I was actually trying to present arguments in a colorful way, not being personal. I hope you saw that. I wasn’t trying to characterize you, or anybody else, really. Not even me. I am not my Inner Luddite. At least, I hope not. My fantasy about “interactive pornography” was not directed toward any person, but was an attempt to stimulate the network neutrality discussion at the Municipal level. I was interested in stimulating the list to discuss the question: Are we obligated to provide expanded bandwidth for all activities equally I actually don’t know what I think about that question, which is why I want to hear it discussed. Is there any legitimate argument to be made for the equivalent of “emergency vehicles” on the “information super-highway”? Or HOV lanes. Is there really no way to distinguish between work and entertainment? Any time a City issues a bond or appropriates funds, it constitutes a collective action, right? So then, collective benefit presumably comes into play, if only of the “you scratch my back and I will scratch yours” kind. So then, we get to make arguments about the relative benefits to a community (or the individuals in it) of different potential allocations. That’s all I meant by “moral urgency”, when push comes to shove. I suppose from Ting’s point of view, it’s all irrelevant. The more use the better. Again my apologies for being annoying. You have made several very helpful contributions to this thread, and I would hate to lose you. Thanks, Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Actually my inner nihilist says, “Who gives a damn about your moral urgency?” No one is obligated to do anything in this situation. The advocates get what they want, or fail to. From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Nick Thompson Marcus, I now realize that my Inner Luddite is actually quite a puritan. He says, “Are any of the activities you describe morally urgent”. I think your Inner Libertarian replies, “Who gives a damn for your Inner Luddite?! It’s not for us to police other’s behavior.” To which my Inner Luddite replies, “Ok. But are we obligated to provide expanded bandwidth for all activities equally?” Like all Puritans, my Inner Luddite has a filthy imagination. Let us imagine a new genre of interactive pornography which requires 1 gig responsivity. Let’s imagine that a marketing survey shows that 60 percent of high band width use will consist of interactive pornography. Is the mayor of Plymouth Massachusetts obligated to facilitate the installation of 1 gig service in her town? N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels There are a variety of technologies, ranging from Ethernet-based frame buffer device drivers (Userful for Linux), to extended RDP protocols (RemoteFX for Windows). Google Chromecast or the NetFlix capabilities integrated into Smart TVs are similar, although they are more oriented toward delivery of compressed video streams where users don’t care so much about artifacts. Latency is more of a problem for interactive use. It doesn’t matter if a video stream for television is delayed by a second, but it is impossible to use such a thing for a desktop computer or most games. Services like Playstation Now (simple protocols integrated into new televisions) have to deal with latency. High performance networking needs to deal with not just bandwidth (download times), but also reducing latency. From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gillian Densmore Huh this zero client thing reminds me of a X11 stunt Skunkworks had. Basically a computer (Fred) could somehow talk to other computers so that what ever you did was just like it was right there on Ruby, John or who evers computer. It rocked! My testing was mostly on the gaming end since LAN parties were a both useful and fun way to test it out and find gremlins. On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities
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Nick, I'd recommend that you pay for access to a fiber connection at some location that is line-of-sight from your house in rural MA, then beam the signal wirelessly from that point to your house. Wireless access points are inexpensive, and easily cover 10-15 miles if you have line of sight. I'm quite fond of Ubiquiti myself (ubnt.com), as they are available here in EC. You can get a pair of Ubiquiti AirGrid 5.8 GHz access points with integrated antennas for about $150, and they should give you about 50 megabits per second, which is probably at least as fast as the connection to fiber would be. Here in the cloud forest, the biggest problem is getting above the trees, many of which are 20-30 meters tall. I've been playing around with designing masts and towers to get above the trees as cheaply as possible. On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities
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In reply to this post by Nick Thompson
“The rest of us have to get our I-net service by dial up or cell tower. The
connections to the Cell tower are metered, so that if you fall asleep at your computer and it decides to download an update, you could wake up from your nap with a 150 dollar phone bill. “ I worry that 5G will take is from bad (Comcast) to an even worse monopolistic situation. But technically the conversation shouldn’t just be about wires. Marcus
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Re: Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities
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All I know is that it sucks ass to do anything requiring internet here in NM. One one hand LOVE the Village feel On the other hand: When I need to get -Bug fixes for anything on my computer -Want to listen to some awsome music or basically do ANYTHING network related like having fun exploring VERY VERY Beutiful down town santa fe is a unexcusablly flaky Pile of Targh food TO THE NETHER WITH THAT! I WANT THE INTERNET AND SCIENCE HERE TO WAKE UP!! By Kahless who SANE wants that stuff to take all day? On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities
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For example I HAVE TO have the option to see what if I can figure out why someones computer is speeking klingon and is on it's way to a Bird of Prey. Well right now my network is to unreliable to do that because it simple doesn't have enough umpf.On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Ting Internet | Crazy fast fiber Internet for US cities
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In reply to this post by Gillian Densmore
Dave West, I enjoyed our conversation today a LOT. Just another thought on the group discussion idea. Once could simply send a message out to the relevant people saying, “I want to get you guys together in a group; what would it take?” And see what happens. I would have a hard time not inviting Frank, if I were, in any sense, a host of the group. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gillian Densmore All I know is that it sucks ass to do anything requiring internet here in NM. One one hand LOVE the Village feel On the other hand: When I need to get -Bug fixes for anything on my computer -Want to listen to some awsome music or basically do ANYTHING network related like having fun exploring VERY VERY Beutiful down town santa fe is a unexcusablly flaky Pile of Targh food TO THE NETHER WITH THAT! I WANT THE INTERNET AND SCIENCE HERE TO WAKE UP!! By Kahless who SANE wants that stuff to take all day? On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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