The immigration debate - 10% ??

[John Pfersich]

And that is the total "undocumented" population over several years, most
likely not all "undocumented" people took up the last amnesty (the last
immigration amnesty was contained in the Immigration Reform and Control
Act, passed in 1986 ). I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to say that
conservative xenophobes are behind the latest controversy.

At 10:36 PM 4/2/2006 -0400, rolandthompson at mindspring.com wrote:

>they are not all mexican .  they are s. american
>
>-----Original Message-----
> >From: Owen Densmore <owen at backspaces.net>
> >Sent: Apr 2, 2006 3:59 PM
> >To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam <friam at redfish.com>
> >Subject: [FRIAM] The immigration debate - 10% ??
> >
> >Dede and I were just wondering -- just how massive IS the immigration
> >from mexico?
> >
> >The current guess at the number of undocumented mexicans in the
> >country is between 11 and 13 million (I've heard as high as 15, but
> >the politicos are tossing 11-13 around).
> >
> >The current (2005 census) population of mexico is 106 million.
> >
> >So if you add back the 11 or 13 then figure out how much that amount
> >is of the total population, you come up with roughly 10% (13M:
> >10.92%, 11M: 9.40%, 15M: 12.39%) of mexico has decided to pick up and
> >leave, and in a very stressful way.
> >
> >TEN PERCENT!?  What in the heck is going wrong in mexico to cause
> >that massive an exodus?  I don't think we've seen that sort of
> >migration even during WWII!
> >
> >I don't want to be simplistic or alarmist, this is a very subtle
> >issue and needs to be solved gracefully.  But I was really surprised
> >to see that large a number of people leaving their homes.
> >
> >     -- Owen
> >
> >Owen Densmore
> >http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org
> >
> >
> >
> >============================================================
> >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> >Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> >lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
>============================================================
>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Martin C. Martin-2]

 From searching for "undocumented immigrants million:"

http://www.urban.org/uploadedPDF/1000587_undoc_immigrants_facts.pdf
http://www.urban.org/publications/1000587.html

"UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS: FACTS AND FIGURES

" Total number: Our best estimate, based on the March 2002 Current
Population Survey and other data sources, is that there are 9.3 million
undocumented immigrants in the country.1 They represent 26 percent of
the total foreign-born population [figure 1].
"? Countries of origin: Mexicans make up over half of undocumented
immigrants?57 percent of the total, or about 5.3 million."


Mexico is undergoing a political transition, from a nationalist and
interventionist government to democratic pluralism.  From:

http://www.economist.com/countries/Mexico/profile.cfm?folder=History%20in%20brief

"Mexico?s recent history [i.e. 20th century & later] has been dominated
by a single political party, the Institutional Revolutionary Party
(PRI), which combined populism and patronage to hold on to power for
more than 70 years. Plutarco El?as Calles, the PRI?s founder, became
president in 1924, and L?zaro C?rdenas, president from 1934 to 1940,
solidified the PRI?s popularity: he instituted land reforms and
nationalised the oil industry. Over the years, the PRI withstood several
popular challenges to its rule: hundreds of protestors were killed in
Mexico City in 1968, and 1994 saw the rise of the Zapatista insurgent
movement in southern Mexico. But president Ernesto Zedillo allowed much
freer elections in 2000, and PRI rule ended with the election of
Vincente Fox of the mainly urban-based, market-friendly National Action
Party."

- Martin

John Pfersich wrote:

> And that is the total "undocumented" population over several years, most
> likely not all "undocumented" people took up the last amnesty (the last
> immigration amnesty was contained in the Immigration Reform and Control
> Act, passed in 1986 ). I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to say that
> conservative xenophobes are behind the latest controversy.
>
> At 10:36 PM 4/2/2006 -0400, rolandthompson at mindspring.com wrote:
>
>>they are not all mexican .  they are s. american
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>
>>>From: Owen Densmore <owen at backspaces.net>
>>>Sent: Apr 2, 2006 3:59 PM
>>>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Friam <friam at redfish.com>
>>>Subject: [FRIAM] The immigration debate - 10% ??
>>>
>>>Dede and I were just wondering -- just how massive IS the immigration
>>
>>>from mexico?
>>
>>>The current guess at the number of undocumented mexicans in the
>>>country is between 11 and 13 million (I've heard as high as 15, but
>>>the politicos are tossing 11-13 around).
>>>
>>>The current (2005 census) population of mexico is 106 million.
>>>
>>>So if you add back the 11 or 13 then figure out how much that amount
>>>is of the total population, you come up with roughly 10% (13M:
>>>10.92%, 11M: 9.40%, 15M: 12.39%) of mexico has decided to pick up and
>>>leave, and in a very stressful way.
>>>
>>>TEN PERCENT!?  What in the heck is going wrong in mexico to cause
>>>that massive an exodus?  I don't think we've seen that sort of
>>>migration even during WWII!
>>>
>>>I don't want to be simplistic or alarmist, this is a very subtle
>>>issue and needs to be solved gracefully.  But I was really surprised
>>>to see that large a number of people leaving their homes.
>>>
>>>    -- Owen
>>>
>>>Owen Densmore
>>>http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>============================================================
>>>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>>lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>>
>>
>>============================================================
>>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org