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The Road to Reality by Roger Penrose

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Owen Densmore

The Road to Reality by Roger Penrose

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OK, here's a related problem that's puzzled me: the impact of
relativity on the big bang and measurement of time.

The big bang folks calculate the age of the universe via current
expansion rates, incorporating the inflationary period correction.

But aren't there relativistic effects that are not considered? Are
they presuming an observer on a photon? Then the universe is pretty
young, right? Are they trying to figure out where the milky way is
and using that point in the universal expansion to determine age?

I've never seen an explanation of the calculated age that includes
the observer. Has anyone else?

-- Owen

Owen Densmore
http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org

On Dec 9, 2005, at 2:22 PM, Hywel White wrote:

> The universe is thought to be expanding at a steady rate. So, the
> spatial
> extent has to change. If electrons have a well defined scale then
> at least
> the way we describe them has to change. Hywel
>
> _____
>
> From: Robert Holmes [mailto:rholmes62 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 9:48 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Road to Reality by Roger Penrose
>
>
> On 12/8/05, Jochen Fromm <fromm at vs.uni-kassel.de> wrote:
>
> <snip> he does not recognize that the laws of nature are
> neither fixed nor eternal. They evolve and emerge
> together with the actors, elements and particles they
> describe.
>
> Really? So electrons are now fundamentally different to what they
> were 100
> years ago? I think it more likely that its our mental models of the
> actors,
> elements and particles that evolve rather than the actors, elements
> and
> particles themselves.
>
> Robert
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at Mission Cafe
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Hywel White

The Road to Reality by Roger Penrose

You have put your finger on some serious problems. The current wisdom is to
handle photons as if they are independent of the local coordinate structure
i.e. Doppler shift works at the edge of the visible Universe just as it does
here. Maybe, maybe not. It is also assumed that the velocity of light is
constant everywhere, but if space stretches, why is the fourth coordinate
exempt? We should talk about this on a Friday for there is much to ponder
on. Hywel

-----Original Message-----
From: Owen Densmore [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 2:41 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Road to Reality by Roger Penrose

OK, here's a related problem that's puzzled me: the impact of
relativity on the big bang and measurement of time.

The big bang folks calculate the age of the universe via current
expansion rates, incorporating the inflationary period correction.

But aren't there relativistic effects that are not considered? Are
they presuming an observer on a photon? Then the universe is pretty
young, right? Are they trying to figure out where the milky way is
and using that point in the universal expansion to determine age?

I've never seen an explanation of the calculated age that includes
the observer. Has anyone else?

-- Owen

Owen Densmore
http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org

On Dec 9, 2005, at 2:22 PM, Hywel White wrote:

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at Mission Cafe
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org