The Professors’ Big Stage

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The Professors’ Big Stage

Owen Densmore
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Interesting MOOC discussion .. starting with one of the best courses I've taken, Michael Sandel's political philosophy course "Justice".  I'm sending a scrape of the NYT page due to their limited access policy.


The last sentence is the key:
     When outstanding becomes so easily available, average is over.
Guess we all gotta get special to keep up!

   -- Owen


The Professors’ Big Stage

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I just spent the last two days at a great conference convened by M.I.T. and Harvard on “Online Learning and the Future of Residential Education” — a k a “How can colleges charge $50,000 a year if my kid can learn it all free from massive open online courses?”

Josh Haner/The New York Times

Thomas L. Friedman

Opinion Twitter Logo.

Connect With Us on Twitter

For Op-Ed, follow@nytopinion and to hear from the editorial page editor, Andrew Rosenthal, follow @andyrNYT.

Readers’ Comments

Readers shared their thoughts on this article.

You may think this MOOCs revolution is hyped, but my driver in Boston disagrees. You see, I was picked up at Logan Airport by my old friend Michael Sandel, who teaches the famous Socratic, 1,000-student “Justice” course at Harvard, which is launching March 12 as the first humanities offering on the M.I.T.-Harvard edX online learning platform. When he met me at the airport I saw he was wearing some very colorful sneakers.

“Where did you get those?” I asked. Well, Sandel explained, he had recently been in South Korea, where his Justice course has been translated into Korean and shown on national television. It has made him such a popular figure there that the Koreans asked him to throw out the ceremonial first pitch at a professional baseball game — and gave him the colored shoes to boot! Yes, a Harvard philosopher was asked to throw out the first pitch in Korea because so many fans enjoy the way he helps them think through big moral dilemmas.

Sandel had just lectured in Seoul in an outdoor amphitheater to 14,000 people, with audience participation. His online Justice lectures, with Chinese subtitles, have already had more than 20 million views on Chinese Web sites, which prompted The China Daily to note that “Sandel has the kind of popularity in China usually reserved for Hollywood movie stars and N.B.A. players.”

O.K., not every professor will develop a global following, but the MOOCs revolution, which will go through many growing pains, is here and is real. These were my key take-aways from the conference:

¶Institutions of higher learning must move, as the historian Walter Russell Mead puts it, from a model of “time served” to a model of “stuff learned.” Because increasingly the world does not care what you know. Everything is on Google. The world only cares, and will only pay for, what you can do with what you know. And therefore it will not pay for a C+ in chemistry, just because your state college considers that a passing grade and was willing to give you a diploma that says so. We’re moving to a more competency-based world where there will be less interest in how you acquired the competency — in an online course, at a four-year-college or in a company-administered class — and more demand to prove that you mastered the competency.

¶Therefore, we have to get beyond the current system of information and delivery — the professorial “sage on the stage” and students taking notes, followed by a superficial assessment, to one in which students are asked and empowered to master more basic material online at their own pace, and the classroom becomes a place where the application of that knowledge can be honed through lab experiments and discussions with the professor. There seemed to be a strong consensus that this “blended model” combining online lectures with a teacher-led classroom experience was the ideal. Last fall, San Jose State used the online lectures and interactive exercises of M.I.T.’s introductory online Circuits and Electronics course. Students would watch the M.I.T. lectures and do the exercises at home, and then come to class, where the first 15 minutes were reserved for questions and answers with the San Jose State professor, and the last 45 were devoted to problem solving and discussion. Preliminary numbers indicate that those passing the class went from nearly 60 percent to about 90 percent. And since this course was the first step to a degree in science and technology, it meant that many more students potentially moved on toward a degree and career in that field.

¶We demand that plumbers and kindergarten teachers be certified to do what they do, but there is no requirement that college professors know how to teach. No more. The world of MOOCs is creating a competition that will force every professor to improve his or her pedagogy or face an online competitor.

¶Bottom line: There is still huge value in the residential college experience and the teacher-student and student-student interactions it facilitates. But to thrive, universities will have to nurture even more of those unique experiences while blending in technology to improve education outcomes in measurable ways at lower costs. We still need more research on what works, but standing still is not an option.

Clayton Christensen, the Harvard Business School professor and expert on disruptive innovation, gave a compelling talk about how much today’s traditional university has in common with General Motors of the 1960s, just before Toyota used a technology breakthrough to come from nowhere and topple G.M. Christensen noted that Harvard Business School doesn’t teach entry-level accounting anymore, because there is a professor out at Brigham Young University whose online accounting course “is just so good” that Harvard students use that instead. When outstanding becomes so easily available, average is over.


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Re: The Professors’ Big Stage

Russ Abbott

On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
increasingly the world does not care what you know. Everything is on Google. The world only cares, and will only pay for, what you can do with what you know.

I think the most interesting line is, " increasingly the world does not care what you know. Everything is on Google. The world only cares, and will only pay for, what you can do with what you know."


 
-- Russ Abbott
_____________________________________________
  Professor, Computer Science
  California State University, Los Angeles

  My paper on how the Fed can fix the economy: ssrn.com/abstract=1977688
  Google voice: 747-999-5105
  CS Wiki and the courses I teach
_____________________________________________ 


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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Nick Thompson
In reply to this post by Owen Densmore

Owen,

 

Something tells me Celebrity Professor Thing  is not going to end well.  It is the TEDdification of higher education.  Vast numbers of silent people, sitting in the dark, watching somebody on a vast stage, in brilliant illumination, before a huge screen THINK FOR THEM.  Now, you would be right to suspect some sour grapes on my part, a professor who always strutted a very small stage.  I could never lecture like this. I just didn’t have the gift.   I could question, and offer quixotic examples, and connect what two students had said, or ask a third to make a connection.  I could even, when I was at my very best, let long silences fall in the room until the students realized that what was important was what they were thinking, not what I was about to say.   So of course I am inclined to think that that sort of retail activity is essential to education.  What you describe here sounds more like the Nuremburg Rallies, than higher education. 

 

Nick 

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 8:31 PM
To: Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] The Professors’ Big Stage

 

Interesting MOOC discussion .. starting with one of the best courses I've taken, Michael Sandel's political philosophy course "Justice".  I'm sending a scrape of the NYT page due to their limited access policy.

 

The last sentence is the key:

     When outstanding becomes so easily available, average is over.

Guess we all gotta get special to keep up!

 

   -- Owen

 

The Professors’ Big Stage

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: March 5, 2013 421 Comments

·        FACEBOOK

·        TWITTER

·        GOOGLE+

·        SAVE

·        E-MAIL

·        SHARE

·        PRINT

·        REPRINTS

·         

I just spent the last two days at a great conference convened by M.I.T. and Harvard on “Online Learning and the Future of Residential Education” — a k a “How can colleges charge $50,000 a year if my kid can learn it all free from massive open online courses?”

Josh Haner/The New York Times

Thomas L. Friedman

Opinion Twitter Logo.

Connect With Us on Twitter

For Op-Ed, follow@nytopinion and to hear from the editorial page editor, Andrew Rosenthal, follow @andyrNYT.

Readers’ Comments

Readers shared their thoughts on this article.

·        Read All Comments (421) »

You may think this MOOCs revolution is hyped, but my driver in Boston disagrees. You see, I was picked up at Logan Airport by my old friend Michael Sandel, who teaches the famous Socratic, 1,000-student “Justice” course at Harvard, which is launching March 12 as the first humanities offering on the M.I.T.-Harvard edX online learning platform. When he met me at the airport I saw he was wearing some very colorful sneakers.

“Where did you get those?” I asked. Well, Sandel explained, he had recently been in South Korea, where his Justice course has been translated into Korean and shown on national television. It has made him such a popular figure there that the Koreans asked him to throw out the ceremonial first pitch at a professional baseball game — and gave him the colored shoes to boot! Yes, a Harvard philosopher was asked to throw out the first pitch in Korea because so many fans enjoy the way he helps them think through big moral dilemmas.

Sandel had just lectured in Seoul in an outdoor amphitheater to 14,000 people, with audience participation. His online Justice lectures, with Chinese subtitles, have already had more than 20 million views on Chinese Web sites, which prompted The China Daily to note that “Sandel has the kind of popularity in China usually reserved for Hollywood movie stars and N.B.A. players.”

O.K., not every professor will develop a global following, but the MOOCs revolution, which will go through many growing pains, is here and is real. These were my key take-aways from the conference:

¶Institutions of higher learning must move, as the historian Walter Russell Mead puts it, from a model of “time served” to a model of “stuff learned.” Because increasingly the world does not care what you know. Everything is on Google. The world only cares, and will only pay for, what you can do with what you know. And therefore it will not pay for a C+ in chemistry, just because your state college considers that a passing grade and was willing to give you a diploma that says so. We’re moving to a more competency-based world where there will be less interest in how you acquired the competency — in an online course, at a four-year-college or in a company-administered class — and more demand to prove that you mastered the competency.

¶Therefore, we have to get beyond the current system of information and delivery — the professorial “sage on the stage” and students taking notes, followed by a superficial assessment, to one in which students are asked and empowered to master more basic material online at their own pace, and the classroom becomes a place where the application of that knowledge can be honed through lab experiments and discussions with the professor. There seemed to be a strong consensus that this “blended model” combining online lectures with a teacher-led classroom experience was the ideal. Last fall, San Jose State used the online lectures and interactive exercises of M.I.T.’s introductory online Circuits and Electronics course. Students would watch the M.I.T. lectures and do the exercises at home, and then come to class, where the first 15 minutes were reserved for questions and answers with the San Jose State professor, and the last 45 were devoted to problem solving and discussion. Preliminary numbers indicate that those passing the class went from nearly 60 percent to about 90 percent. And since this course was the first step to a degree in science and technology, it meant that many more students potentially moved on toward a degree and career in that field.

¶We demand that plumbers and kindergarten teachers be certified to do what they do, but there is no requirement that college professors know how to teach. No more. The world of MOOCs is creating a competition that will force every professor to improve his or her pedagogy or face an online competitor.

¶Bottom line: There is still huge value in the residential college experience and the teacher-student and student-student interactions it facilitates. But to thrive, universities will have to nurture even more of those unique experiences while blending in technology to improve education outcomes in measurable ways at lower costs. We still need more research on what works, but standing still is not an option.

Clayton Christensen, the Harvard Business School professor and expert on disruptive innovation, gave a compelling talk about how much today’s traditional university has in common with General Motors of the 1960s, just before Toyota used a technology breakthrough to come from nowhere and topple G.M. Christensen noted that Harvard Business School doesn’t teach entry-level accounting anymore, because there is a professor out at Brigham Young University whose online accounting course “is just so good” that Harvard students use that instead. When outstanding becomes so easily available, average is over.


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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Russ Abbott
Nick,

There are many issues about MOOCs. But most of them do not consist of a professor on a big stage. Most of them are professors writing on a screen where all you see is the screen. The intent to make the experience similar to a tutor talking directly to a student. Of course, as you say, there is no real student response and no class interaction. But most of these are courses are not what you think. Sandel's course is the only one like what you are imagining--and he tends to be pretty good at making it very interactive even though it's held in a theater with hundreds of people.

 
-- Russ Abbott
_____________________________________________
  Professor, Computer Science
  California State University, Los Angeles

  My paper on how the Fed can fix the economy: ssrn.com/abstract=1977688
  Google voice: 747-999-5105
  CS Wiki and the courses I teach
_____________________________________________ 



On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Owen,

 

Something tells me Celebrity Professor Thing  is not going to end well.  It is the TEDdification of higher education.  Vast numbers of silent people, sitting in the dark, watching somebody on a vast stage, in brilliant illumination, before a huge screen THINK FOR THEM.  Now, you would be right to suspect some sour grapes on my part, a professor who always strutted a very small stage.  I could never lecture like this. I just didn’t have the gift.   I could question, and offer quixotic examples, and connect what two students had said, or ask a third to make a connection.  I could even, when I was at my very best, let long silences fall in the room until the students realized that what was important was what they were thinking, not what I was about to say.   So of course I am inclined to think that that sort of retail activity is essential to education.  What you describe here sounds more like the Nuremburg Rallies, than higher education. 

 

Nick 

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 8:31 PM
To: Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] The Professors’ Big Stage

 

Interesting MOOC discussion .. starting with one of the best courses I've taken, Michael Sandel's political philosophy course "Justice".  I'm sending a scrape of the NYT page due to their limited access policy.

 

The last sentence is the key:

     When outstanding becomes so easily available, average is over.

Guess we all gotta get special to keep up!

 

   -- Owen

 

The Professors’ Big Stage

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: March 5, 2013 421 Comments

·        FACEBOOK

·        TWITTER

·        GOOGLE+

·        SAVE

·        E-MAIL

·        SHARE

·        PRINT

·        REPRINTS

·         

I just spent the last two days at a great conference convened by M.I.T. and Harvard on “Online Learning and the Future of Residential Education” — a k a “How can colleges charge $50,000 a year if my kid can learn it all free from massive open online courses?”

Josh Haner/The New York Times

Thomas L. Friedman

Opinion Twitter Logo.

Connect With Us on Twitter

For Op-Ed, follow@nytopinion and to hear from the editorial page editor, Andrew Rosenthal, follow @andyrNYT.

Readers’ Comments

Readers shared their thoughts on this article.

·        Read All Comments (421) »

You may think this MOOCs revolution is hyped, but my driver in Boston disagrees. You see, I was picked up at Logan Airport by my old friend Michael Sandel, who teaches the famous Socratic, 1,000-student “Justice” course at Harvard, which is launching March 12 as the first humanities offering on the M.I.T.-Harvard edX online learning platform. When he met me at the airport I saw he was wearing some very colorful sneakers.

“Where did you get those?” I asked. Well, Sandel explained, he had recently been in South Korea, where his Justice course has been translated into Korean and shown on national television. It has made him such a popular figure there that the Koreans asked him to throw out the ceremonial first pitch at a professional baseball game — and gave him the colored shoes to boot! Yes, a Harvard philosopher was asked to throw out the first pitch in Korea because so many fans enjoy the way he helps them think through big moral dilemmas.

Sandel had just lectured in Seoul in an outdoor amphitheater to 14,000 people, with audience participation. His online Justice lectures, with Chinese subtitles, have already had more than 20 million views on Chinese Web sites, which prompted The China Daily to note that “Sandel has the kind of popularity in China usually reserved for Hollywood movie stars and N.B.A. players.”

O.K., not every professor will develop a global following, but the MOOCs revolution, which will go through many growing pains, is here and is real. These were my key take-aways from the conference:

¶Institutions of higher learning must move, as the historian Walter Russell Mead puts it, from a model of “time served” to a model of “stuff learned.” Because increasingly the world does not care what you know. Everything is on Google. The world only cares, and will only pay for, what you can do with what you know. And therefore it will not pay for a C+ in chemistry, just because your state college considers that a passing grade and was willing to give you a diploma that says so. We’re moving to a more competency-based world where there will be less interest in how you acquired the competency — in an online course, at a four-year-college or in a company-administered class — and more demand to prove that you mastered the competency.

¶Therefore, we have to get beyond the current system of information and delivery — the professorial “sage on the stage” and students taking notes, followed by a superficial assessment, to one in which students are asked and empowered to master more basic material online at their own pace, and the classroom becomes a place where the application of that knowledge can be honed through lab experiments and discussions with the professor. There seemed to be a strong consensus that this “blended model” combining online lectures with a teacher-led classroom experience was the ideal. Last fall, San Jose State used the online lectures and interactive exercises of M.I.T.’s introductory online Circuits and Electronics course. Students would watch the M.I.T. lectures and do the exercises at home, and then come to class, where the first 15 minutes were reserved for questions and answers with the San Jose State professor, and the last 45 were devoted to problem solving and discussion. Preliminary numbers indicate that those passing the class went from nearly 60 percent to about 90 percent. And since this course was the first step to a degree in science and technology, it meant that many more students potentially moved on toward a degree and career in that field.

¶We demand that plumbers and kindergarten teachers be certified to do what they do, but there is no requirement that college professors know how to teach. No more. The world of MOOCs is creating a competition that will force every professor to improve his or her pedagogy or face an online competitor.

¶Bottom line: There is still huge value in the residential college experience and the teacher-student and student-student interactions it facilitates. But to thrive, universities will have to nurture even more of those unique experiences while blending in technology to improve education outcomes in measurable ways at lower costs. We still need more research on what works, but standing still is not an option.

Clayton Christensen, the Harvard Business School professor and expert on disruptive innovation, gave a compelling talk about how much today’s traditional university has in common with General Motors of the 1960s, just before Toyota used a technology breakthrough to come from nowhere and topple G.M. Christensen noted that Harvard Business School doesn’t teach entry-level accounting anymore, because there is a professor out at Brigham Young University whose online accounting course “is just so good” that Harvard students use that instead. When outstanding becomes so easily available, average is over.


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


============================================================
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Russ Abbott
In reply to this post by Nick Thompson
Nick,

There are many issues about MOOCs that must be worked out. But most of them do not consist of a professor on a big stage. Most of them are professors writing on a screen where all you see is the screen.

 
-- Russ Abbott
_____________________________________________
  Professor, Computer Science
  California State University, Los Angeles

  My paper on how the Fed can fix the economy: ssrn.com/abstract=1977688
  Google voice: 747-999-5105
  CS Wiki and the courses I teach
_____________________________________________ 



On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Owen,

 

Something tells me Celebrity Professor Thing  is not going to end well.  It is the TEDdification of higher education.  Vast numbers of silent people, sitting in the dark, watching somebody on a vast stage, in brilliant illumination, before a huge screen THINK FOR THEM.  Now, you would be right to suspect some sour grapes on my part, a professor who always strutted a very small stage.  I could never lecture like this. I just didn’t have the gift.   I could question, and offer quixotic examples, and connect what two students had said, or ask a third to make a connection.  I could even, when I was at my very best, let long silences fall in the room until the students realized that what was important was what they were thinking, not what I was about to say.   So of course I am inclined to think that that sort of retail activity is essential to education.  What you describe here sounds more like the Nuremburg Rallies, than higher education. 

 

Nick 

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 8:31 PM
To: Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] The Professors’ Big Stage

 

Interesting MOOC discussion .. starting with one of the best courses I've taken, Michael Sandel's political philosophy course "Justice".  I'm sending a scrape of the NYT page due to their limited access policy.

 

The last sentence is the key:

     When outstanding becomes so easily available, average is over.

Guess we all gotta get special to keep up!

 

   -- Owen

 

The Professors’ Big Stage

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: March 5, 2013 421 Comments

·        FACEBOOK

·        TWITTER

·        GOOGLE+

·        SAVE

·        E-MAIL

·        SHARE

·        PRINT

·        REPRINTS

·         

I just spent the last two days at a great conference convened by M.I.T. and Harvard on “Online Learning and the Future of Residential Education” — a k a “How can colleges charge $50,000 a year if my kid can learn it all free from massive open online courses?”

Josh Haner/The New York Times

Thomas L. Friedman

Opinion Twitter Logo.

Connect With Us on Twitter

For Op-Ed, follow@nytopinion and to hear from the editorial page editor, Andrew Rosenthal, follow @andyrNYT.

Readers’ Comments

Readers shared their thoughts on this article.

·        Read All Comments (421) »

You may think this MOOCs revolution is hyped, but my driver in Boston disagrees. You see, I was picked up at Logan Airport by my old friend Michael Sandel, who teaches the famous Socratic, 1,000-student “Justice” course at Harvard, which is launching March 12 as the first humanities offering on the M.I.T.-Harvard edX online learning platform. When he met me at the airport I saw he was wearing some very colorful sneakers.

“Where did you get those?” I asked. Well, Sandel explained, he had recently been in South Korea, where his Justice course has been translated into Korean and shown on national television. It has made him such a popular figure there that the Koreans asked him to throw out the ceremonial first pitch at a professional baseball game — and gave him the colored shoes to boot! Yes, a Harvard philosopher was asked to throw out the first pitch in Korea because so many fans enjoy the way he helps them think through big moral dilemmas.

Sandel had just lectured in Seoul in an outdoor amphitheater to 14,000 people, with audience participation. His online Justice lectures, with Chinese subtitles, have already had more than 20 million views on Chinese Web sites, which prompted The China Daily to note that “Sandel has the kind of popularity in China usually reserved for Hollywood movie stars and N.B.A. players.”

O.K., not every professor will develop a global following, but the MOOCs revolution, which will go through many growing pains, is here and is real. These were my key take-aways from the conference:

¶Institutions of higher learning must move, as the historian Walter Russell Mead puts it, from a model of “time served” to a model of “stuff learned.” Because increasingly the world does not care what you know. Everything is on Google. The world only cares, and will only pay for, what you can do with what you know. And therefore it will not pay for a C+ in chemistry, just because your state college considers that a passing grade and was willing to give you a diploma that says so. We’re moving to a more competency-based world where there will be less interest in how you acquired the competency — in an online course, at a four-year-college or in a company-administered class — and more demand to prove that you mastered the competency.

¶Therefore, we have to get beyond the current system of information and delivery — the professorial “sage on the stage” and students taking notes, followed by a superficial assessment, to one in which students are asked and empowered to master more basic material online at their own pace, and the classroom becomes a place where the application of that knowledge can be honed through lab experiments and discussions with the professor. There seemed to be a strong consensus that this “blended model” combining online lectures with a teacher-led classroom experience was the ideal. Last fall, San Jose State used the online lectures and interactive exercises of M.I.T.’s introductory online Circuits and Electronics course. Students would watch the M.I.T. lectures and do the exercises at home, and then come to class, where the first 15 minutes were reserved for questions and answers with the San Jose State professor, and the last 45 were devoted to problem solving and discussion. Preliminary numbers indicate that those passing the class went from nearly 60 percent to about 90 percent. And since this course was the first step to a degree in science and technology, it meant that many more students potentially moved on toward a degree and career in that field.

¶We demand that plumbers and kindergarten teachers be certified to do what they do, but there is no requirement that college professors know how to teach. No more. The world of MOOCs is creating a competition that will force every professor to improve his or her pedagogy or face an online competitor.

¶Bottom line: There is still huge value in the residential college experience and the teacher-student and student-student interactions it facilitates. But to thrive, universities will have to nurture even more of those unique experiences while blending in technology to improve education outcomes in measurable ways at lower costs. We still need more research on what works, but standing still is not an option.

Clayton Christensen, the Harvard Business School professor and expert on disruptive innovation, gave a compelling talk about how much today’s traditional university has in common with General Motors of the 1960s, just before Toyota used a technology breakthrough to come from nowhere and topple G.M. Christensen noted that Harvard Business School doesn’t teach entry-level accounting anymore, because there is a professor out at Brigham Young University whose online accounting course “is just so good” that Harvard students use that instead. When outstanding becomes so easily available, average is over.


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Bruce Sherwood
And, alas, many university classes, especially in introductory courses at large universities, bear little resemblance to the kind of ideal situation Nick created and sustained but rather look a lot like Nick's nightmare.

Bruce

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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Edward Angel
I suspect it may be only the beginning of Nick's nightmare.

There really are gifted people who can teach an exciting course to 1000 students. Any if 1000, why not 100,000 via a MOOC? Parents and students who are paying $40,000 and more for tuition may wonder about where their money is going if there are 200-1000 students in a class. It's also easy to find mediocre to poor MOOCs on the Internet.

Although it's very unclear were MOOCs will wind up, it's important to note that the primary driver of the movement in most universities is not the quality that MOOCs might be able to deliver nor providing universal access but money. Boards of Regents and other governing bodies are pushing MOOCs as a cost reducing measure. The Chronicle of Higher Education is a good source for what has gone on at UVA and some other large universities. At Virginia, the President was forced to resign over the issue and was only returned to office after continuing protests by the faculty and students that were going in the direction of a strike.

Some of what I see now reminds me of the hype when video courses became available. Schools including USC and Stanford offered MS degrees by video and a consortium of universities formed the National Television University (NTU). I did some of a course for USC and one for NTU. But the economics changed as did the technology and NTU is now defunct. That may be the way of MOOCs.

Ed
__________

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home)   [hidden email]
505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel


On Mar 7, 2013, at 8:19 AM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:

And, alas, many university classes, especially in introductory courses at large universities, bear little resemblance to the kind of ideal situation Nick created and sustained but rather look a lot like Nick's nightmare.

Bruce
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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Nick Thompson

Ed,

 

I am curious to know what the folks on this list think an education consists in.   For me, it consisted in

(1)     Many large lectures  of which most were stultifying beyond belief, but of which a few were inspiring.

(2)    A few settings where I made direct contact with professors (or good TA;s)  and was taught how to do stuff and my work was critiqued in meaningful ways. 

(3)    Many, many interactions with very smart peers in which they taught me and I got to try my ideas out on them.

 

Was your experience different from that?

 

N

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Edward Angel
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 4:44 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Professors' Big Stage

 

I suspect it may be only the beginning of Nick's nightmare.

 

There really are gifted people who can teach an exciting course to 1000 students. Any if 1000, why not 100,000 via a MOOC? Parents and students who are paying $40,000 and more for tuition may wonder about where their money is going if there are 200-1000 students in a class. It's also easy to find mediocre to poor MOOCs on the Internet.

 

Although it's very unclear were MOOCs will wind up, it's important to note that the primary driver of the movement in most universities is not the quality that MOOCs might be able to deliver nor providing universal access but money. Boards of Regents and other governing bodies are pushing MOOCs as a cost reducing measure. The Chronicle of Higher Education is a good source for what has gone on at UVA and some other large universities. At Virginia, the President was forced to resign over the issue and was only returned to office after continuing protests by the faculty and students that were going in the direction of a strike.

 

Some of what I see now reminds me of the hype when video courses became available. Schools including USC and Stanford offered MS degrees by video and a consortium of universities formed the National Television University (NTU). I did some of a course for USC and one for NTU. But the economics changed as did the technology and NTU is now defunct. That may be the way of MOOCs.

 

Ed

__________

 

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon

Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home)                       [hidden email]

505-453-4944 (cell)                                     http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel

 

On Mar 7, 2013, at 8:19 AM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:



And, alas, many university classes, especially in introductory courses at large universities, bear little resemblance to the kind of ideal situation Nick created and sustained but rather look a lot like Nick's nightmare.

 

Bruce

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

glen ropella

I only had 2 years of very large lectures freshman and sophomore years
of college.  My k12 and the rest of college consisted mostly of your
(2), varying degrees of personal relationships with teachers.

My (3) was limited because I'm a kook and don't play well with others.
But the few peers I did interact with became lifelong teachers to me.
I'm still friends with most of them.

Frankly, I get very little out of lectures.  If it's not interactive and
exploratory, it's largely wasted on me.  The only reason I survived my
1st two college years was because my high school classes covered much of
that material and I was too chicken to try to test out of those classes.
 There was a horrifying bridge period the second half of my second year
in college and much of my third year that tested my resolve.  I did very
poorly.  Then it picked up quite a bit when I started taking classes
where thought was valued over testing skills.

Nicholas Thompson wrote at 03/07/2013 04:03 PM:

> I am curious to know what the folks on this list think an education
> consists in.   For me, it consisted in
>
> (1)     Many large lectures  of which most were stultifying beyond
> belief, but of which a few were inspiring.
>
> (2)    A few settings where I made direct contact with professors (or
> good TA;s)  and was taught how to do stuff and my work was critiqued in
> meaningful ways.
>
> (3)    Many, many interactions with very smart peers in which they
> taught me and I got to try my ideas out on them.
>
>  
>
> Was your experience different from that?


--
=><= glen e. p. ropella
I came up from the ground, i came down from the sky,


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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Pamela McCorduck
I went to a large state university (UC Berkeley) and my first couple of years were mostly large lectures, small sections with TAs. Some were stultifying; some were inspiring. (I stood up and cheered in gratitude for the guy who taught my Plato course, a huge lecture). As luck would have it, I was an English major, so the 101 course in English was small sections (20 persons max) taught by full faculty. This was the kind of course where I was taught to think, as real faculty went over my essays and challenged and praised--#2, critiqued in meaningful ways. The last two years were a mixture of small classes and large lectures, but I was heavily influenced (luckily) by some very smart roommates, friends, and, yes, boyfriends.

Graduate school was nearly all small courses, yet one of the most wonderful was a lecture course. I  met that professor (who didn't know me from Adam) twenty years later at a dinner party, and recited to her some of the outrageously wonderful things she'd lectured on. She was thrilled--and so was I to be able to tell her these things.

In short, teaching is an art (which in the U.S. we pay at the level of an art), and why are we surprised that we all learn differently, respond to different modes of teaching, on different topics?


On Mar 7, 2013, at 7:19 PM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I only had 2 years of very large lectures freshman and sophomore years
> of college.  My k12 and the rest of college consisted mostly of your
> (2), varying degrees of personal relationships with teachers.
>
> My (3) was limited because I'm a kook and don't play well with others.
> But the few peers I did interact with became lifelong teachers to me.
> I'm still friends with most of them.
>
> Frankly, I get very little out of lectures.  If it's not interactive and
> exploratory, it's largely wasted on me.  The only reason I survived my
> 1st two college years was because my high school classes covered much of
> that material and I was too chicken to try to test out of those classes.
> There was a horrifying bridge period the second half of my second year
> in college and much of my third year that tested my resolve.  I did very
> poorly.  Then it picked up quite a bit when I started taking classes
> where thought was valued over testing skills.
>
> Nicholas Thompson wrote at 03/07/2013 04:03 PM:
>> I am curious to know what the folks on this list think an education
>> consists in.   For me, it consisted in
>>
>> (1)     Many large lectures  of which most were stultifying beyond
>> belief, but of which a few were inspiring.
>>
>> (2)    A few settings where I made direct contact with professors (or
>> good TA;s)  and was taught how to do stuff and my work was critiqued in
>> meaningful ways.
>>
>> (3)    Many, many interactions with very smart peers in which they
>> taught me and I got to try my ideas out on them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Was your experience different from that?
>
>
> --
> =><= glen e. p. ropella
> I came up from the ground, i came down from the sky,
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Edward Angel
In reply to this post by Nick Thompson
<base href="x-msg://1518/">I was an undergrad at Caltech. Although there were only 200 new students each year, for all the beginning science and math classes, we were all put in one lecture. So

I agree with (1). There were Nobel laureates (Pauling and Feynman) who were inspiring but  most lectures were stultifying and had no correlation with the research of the lecturer (one of the fallacies universities like to propagate). 
I mostly agree with (2) although we had some truly awful TAs.

(3) was what mattered and is most of what I remember most and is still my tie to my undergraduate education..

If there was any correlation, it was that in a major research institution, very few faculty truly care about undergrads, especially those who are struggling. There are some but they are few and far between. When I was at USC and Berkeley it was very similar. In my 30 years at UNM, I think UNM did what many other large universities have done in moving towards a research orientation and thus the percentage of faculty who both want to and can put in a significant amount of time to undergraduate education has gone down. Personally I find that factor overrides the large vs small class issue.

Ed
__________

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home)   [hidden email]
505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel


On Mar 7, 2013, at 5:03 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:

Ed,
 
I am curious to know what the folks on this list think an education consists in.   For me, it consisted in
(1)     Many large lectures  of which most were stultifying beyond belief, but of which a few were inspiring.
(2)    A few settings where I made direct contact with professors (or good TA;s)  and was taught how to do stuff and my work was critiqued in meaningful ways. 
(3)    Many, many interactions with very smart peers in which they taught me and I got to try my ideas out on them.
 
Was your experience different from that?
 
N
From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Edward Angel
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 4:44 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The Professors' Big Stage
 
I suspect it may be only the beginning of Nick's nightmare.
 
There really are gifted people who can teach an exciting course to 1000 students. Any if 1000, why not 100,000 via a MOOC? Parents and students who are paying $40,000 and more for tuition may wonder about where their money is going if there are 200-1000 students in a class. It's also easy to find mediocre to poor MOOCs on the Internet.
 
Although it's very unclear were MOOCs will wind up, it's important to note that the primary driver of the movement in most universities is not the quality that MOOCs might be able to deliver nor providing universal access but money. Boards of Regents and other governing bodies are pushing MOOCs as a cost reducing measure. The Chronicle of Higher Education is a good source for what has gone on at UVA and some other large universities. At Virginia, the President was forced to resign over the issue and was only returned to office after continuing protests by the faculty and students that were going in the direction of a strike.
 
Some of what I see now reminds me of the hype when video courses became available. Schools including USC and Stanford offered MS degrees by video and a consortium of universities formed the National Television University (NTU). I did some of a course for USC and one for NTU. But the economics changed as did the technology and NTU is now defunct. That may be the way of MOOCs.
 
Ed
__________
 

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home)                       [hidden email]

505-453-4944 (cell)                                     http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel

 
On Mar 7, 2013, at 8:19 AM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:


And, alas, many university classes, especially in introductory courses at large universities, bear little resemblance to the kind of ideal situation Nick created and sustained but rather look a lot like Nick's nightmare.
 
Bruce
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Bruce Sherwood
I was an undergraduate in engineering at Purdue (I grew up in West Lafayette, so this was overdetermined). A huge part of my education was working a very large number of problem sets in a rather large number of technical courses every semester, with several big tests every semester in every one of the courses, so that by the end of the four years it seemed to me that I hadn't had any time to reflect on what I was doing. From what little I knew about European education, it sounded great because apparently mostly you were thinking rather than just doing.

Just after college I spent a year as a Fulbright fifth-year physics student at the University of Padova (or to use the ugly English spelling and pronunciation, Padua). It was the opposite extreme. You didn't really have to go to class, there was little or no homework, and for a course there was one test at the end of the semester. This seemed pretty disfunctional too, because my fellow students tended to do nothing for a semester, then cram at the last minute.

Seems like there could/should be something in between these two extremes....

I did have some good teachers in rather small courses at Purdue. Peter Lykoudis taught the fluid dynamics course (with Prandtl's textbook) and handed out quotations from Kahlil Gibran's "The Prophet". He also introduced me for the first time to the notion of making micro-macro connections, something that has been very important in my career. 

I got a job as a student assistant in a particle physics lab and acquired a mentor, Pete Palfrey, then a young professor, who at several critical moments in my life suggested what I should do next, and I mustered the good sense to follow his advice, which turned out extremely well in every case. When I was a senior I took his excellent "modern physics" course using the excellent textbook by Robert Leighton, with whom I later got to teach at Caltech. It was Palfrey's influence that led to me switching from engineering to physics. I also had at least one truly dreadful teacher, a professor who taught intermediate electromagnetism from a dreadful textbook and actually literally read the textbook to us in class!

Summary of my undergraduate education:

1) I had some large lectures in intro courses, which were okay.

2) Lykoudis and Palfrey had a big impact, inside and outside of courses. Working problem sets was the dominant educational experience.

3) I didn't get much stimulation from other students.

Graduate school was a very different experience.....

Bruce

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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Roger Critchlow-2
In reply to this post by Edward Angel
I had roughly equal numbers of lectures and tutorial sessions at Reed for two years, almost entirely tutorials from then on.  Math was entirely taught in tutorial sessions.  All tutorials were led by professors or advanced undergraduates.  All lecture courses had a tutorial component.  

Most of the people at a college are your fellow students so you're bound to have a lot of interactions with them.  What proportion of those interactions are educational or Educational or not worth remembering surely varies a great deal.

Richard Hamming had damning words for entertaining lecturers, he felt they invariably cheated.  The experience of listening to them lecture was always followed by the disheartening discovery that you had no idea how to do X, even though X should have been covered right between W and Y in the lecture.  The lecturer omits X because it's messy and it spoils his delivery.

-- rec --

-- rec --

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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Curt McNamara
In reply to this post by glen ropella

Just curious - how many of you have actually signed up for and completed a MOOC?

If the answer is not yet, then consider jumping onto Scott Pages excellent model thinking course that is just starting.

    Curt

https://www.coursera.org/course/modelthinking

On Mar 7, 2013 6:19 PM, "glen" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I only had 2 years of very large lectures freshman and sophomore years
of college.  My k12 and the rest of college consisted mostly of your
(2), varying degrees of personal relationships with teachers.

My (3) was limited because I'm a kook and don't play well with others.
But the few peers I did interact with became lifelong teachers to me.
I'm still friends with most of them.

Frankly, I get very little out of lectures.  If it's not interactive and
exploratory, it's largely wasted on me.  The only reason I survived my
1st two college years was because my high school classes covered much of
that material and I was too chicken to try to test out of those classes.
 There was a horrifying bridge period the second half of my second year
in college and much of my third year that tested my resolve.  I did very
poorly.  Then it picked up quite a bit when I started taking classes
where thought was valued over testing skills.

Nicholas Thompson wrote at 03/07/2013 04:03 PM:
> I am curious to know what the folks on this list think an education
> consists in.   For me, it consisted in
>
> (1)     Many large lectures  of which most were stultifying beyond
> belief, but of which a few were inspiring.
>
> (2)    A few settings where I made direct contact with professors (or
> good TA;s)  and was taught how to do stuff and my work was critiqued in
> meaningful ways.
>
> (3)    Many, many interactions with very smart peers in which they
> taught me and I got to try my ideas out on them.
>
>
>
> Was your experience different from that?


--
=><= glen e. p. ropella
I came up from the ground, i came down from the sky,


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Douglas Roberts-2

Why?

On Mar 7, 2013 9:03 PM, "Curt McNamara" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just curious - how many of you have actually signed up for and completed a MOOC?

If the answer is not yet, then consider jumping onto Scott Pages excellent model thinking course that is just starting.

    Curt

https://www.coursera.org/course/modelthinking

On Mar 7, 2013 6:19 PM, "glen" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I only had 2 years of very large lectures freshman and sophomore years
of college.  My k12 and the rest of college consisted mostly of your
(2), varying degrees of personal relationships with teachers.

My (3) was limited because I'm a kook and don't play well with others.
But the few peers I did interact with became lifelong teachers to me.
I'm still friends with most of them.

Frankly, I get very little out of lectures.  If it's not interactive and
exploratory, it's largely wasted on me.  The only reason I survived my
1st two college years was because my high school classes covered much of
that material and I was too chicken to try to test out of those classes.
 There was a horrifying bridge period the second half of my second year
in college and much of my third year that tested my resolve.  I did very
poorly.  Then it picked up quite a bit when I started taking classes
where thought was valued over testing skills.

Nicholas Thompson wrote at 03/07/2013 04:03 PM:
> I am curious to know what the folks on this list think an education
> consists in.   For me, it consisted in
>
> (1)     Many large lectures  of which most were stultifying beyond
> belief, but of which a few were inspiring.
>
> (2)    A few settings where I made direct contact with professors (or
> good TA;s)  and was taught how to do stuff and my work was critiqued in
> meaningful ways.
>
> (3)    Many, many interactions with very smart peers in which they
> taught me and I got to try my ideas out on them.
>
>
>
> Was your experience different from that?


--
=><= glen e. p. ropella
I came up from the ground, i came down from the sky,


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Bruce Sherwood
In reply to this post by Curt McNamara
To see what a MOOC is like, Ruth Chabay and I took the Udacity CS 101 course.

We were impressed by the course design. The description of the 
course said that "In about 7 weeks you will build a small search engine, even if you've never written a computer program before". This goal statement is very clear and very challenging. All through the course, new CS concepts were introduced in a way that made it clear how the concept would serve the course goal, thereby providing motivation and continuity. The "blackboard" presentations were clear, and frequently interrupted by the equivalent of "clicker" questions used in large lectures in many universities now (the students have simple handheld wireless devices to respond to multiple-choice questions). 

The programming language was Python, which is a particularly good choice for novices. Homework consisted of writing functions that took sample input and produced specified output. We uploaded our functions, which were run on input data unknown to us and marked correct if all the inputs produced the correct outputs. There were occasional breaks in the action to discuss questions that had been raised in a forum. The instructor, David Evans, was excellent in his presentation and choice of examples. All in all, a class act. We went through the whole course out of curiosity, and we too were occasionally challenged by extra "challenge" problems that were not required.

Bruce

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Curt McNamara <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just curious - how many of you have actually signed up for and completed a MOOC?

If the answer is not yet, then consider jumping onto Scott Pages excellent model thinking course that is just starting.

    Curt

https://www.coursera.org/course/modelthinking



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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Bruce Sherwood
In reply to this post by Curt McNamara
I forgot to mention that a few months ago Ruth started the Scott Page course with high expectations but eventually dropped it with disappointment. However, she perceived that Page didn't receive nearly the kind of infrastructure support that Evans had received from Udacity, at least in that first offering. In any case, "Your results may differ."

Bruce


On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Curt McNamara <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just curious - how many of you have actually signed up for and completed a MOOC?

If the answer is not yet, then consider jumping onto Scott Pages excellent model thinking course that is just starting.

    Curt

https://www.coursera.org/course/modelthinking


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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Russ Abbott
I taught our Functional Programming class last Fall by having the students watch Martin Odersky's Functional Programming in Scala course. I met with them once a week in small groups to discuss the homework assignments. (In this course too you submit the homework exercises which are run on new data.) I like the result. I thought the lectures didn't match the homework as well as they might have, though. I think some of the students didn't like being on the spot every week. Also at least one sstudent was very angry that I wasn't lecturing. His course evaluation complained about how lazy the professor was. (In fact I watched all the lectures, did all the homeworks, and prepared explanations for them. As it turned out, this was quite a bit of work, which had to be done in "real time" as the course proceeded. It also took more of my time to see the students in small groups than it would have to lecture to them all at once.  But then professors are often not appreciated.)

All-in-all I liked the approach and plan to use it again.

 
-- Russ Abbott
_____________________________________________
  Professor, Computer Science
  California State University, Los Angeles

  My paper on how the Fed can fix the economy: ssrn.com/abstract=1977688
  Google voice: 747-999-5105
  CS Wiki and the courses I teach
_____________________________________________ 



On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Bruce Sherwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
I forgot to mention that a few months ago Ruth started the Scott Page course with high expectations but eventually dropped it with disappointment. However, she perceived that Page didn't receive nearly the kind of infrastructure support that Evans had received from Udacity, at least in that first offering. In any case, "Your results may differ."

Bruce


On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:03 PM, Curt McNamara <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just curious - how many of you have actually signed up for and completed a MOOC?

If the answer is not yet, then consider jumping onto Scott Pages excellent model thinking course that is just starting.

    Curt

https://www.coursera.org/course/modelthinking


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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

Steve Smith
In reply to this post by Roger Critchlow-2
I think higher education as we know it is in the early stages of a critical phase change or inversion of some kind.  For better and worse.  

I'm curious what our younger members who might still be in the process of getting their (first round of) education see from their perspective?

- Steve

I had roughly equal numbers of lectures and tutorial sessions at Reed for two years, almost entirely tutorials from then on.  Math was entirely taught in tutorial sessions.  All tutorials were led by professors or advanced undergraduates.  All lecture courses had a tutorial component.  

Most of the people at a college are your fellow students so you're bound to have a lot of interactions with them.  What proportion of those interactions are educational or Educational or not worth remembering surely varies a great deal.

Richard Hamming had damning words for entertaining lecturers, he felt they invariably cheated.  The experience of listening to them lecture was always followed by the disheartening discovery that you had no idea how to do X, even though X should have been covered right between W and Y in the lecture.  The lecturer omits X because it's messy and it spoils his delivery.

-- rec --

-- rec --


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Re: The Professors' Big Stage

glen ep ropella
In reply to this post by Curt McNamara
Curt McNamara wrote at 03/07/2013 08:03 PM:
> Just curious - how many of you have actually signed up for and completed
> a MOOC?

I haven't yet taken one.  I detest guided instruction so much, I haven't
had the energy to prime my discipline pump.  Hell, I don't even read
books in the right order anymore. 8^)  I really appreciate when an
author puts curriculum graphs in the front of the book suggesting
different use cases for it.  What I appreciate most is taking a path
through the book that's not included in the provided graphs.

I will eventually take a MOOC, though.  I'm hoping that the timing works
out so that I can synchronize the topic with my other interests.

--
glen e. p. ropella, 971-255-2847, http://tempusdictum.com
Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted
was once eccentric. -- Bertrand Russell


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