The Apex of the Vee

[Peter Lissaman]

The interesting discussions relating to bussing, pelotons and human/animal behavior call to mind some papers I published at Caltech in 1969 relating to the advantages of Vee formation flight for migrating birds.  Because the saving is in induced drag the least energy position is, counter intuitively,  the apex (point) of the Vee.  I was immediately assailed by ornithologists and bird watchers, who knew much more about the subject than I, and rather than checking the equations, challenged my results on their ideas of behavioral grounds.  It turns out that the apex position is indeed taken by the oldest and strongest bird.  Would he, they asked, take the easiest job?  My answer was:"yes."!


Peter Lissaman, Da Vinci Ventures

Expertise is not knowing everything, but knowing what to look for.

1454 Miracerros Loop South, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505
TEL: [phone] FAX: [phone]
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[Don Begley]

On Mar 30, 2008, at 1:05 PM, Peter Lissaman wrote:

>  It turns out that the apex position is indeed taken by the oldest  
> and strongest bird.  Would he, they asked, take the easiest job?  My  
> answer was:"yes."!


He may be a bird-brain but he's not stupid.

That leads to my theory on how various religious traditions came into  
being. Once humans reached a level of caloric & social security that  
allowed some citizens to live past their sexually and huntingly (sic)  
productive years, the longer-lived individuals had to develop an  
argument for being fed by their younger counterparts. What better way  
than to promise they could bring the sun back if only they were fed  
while they performed the necessary rituals.

-d-
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[Prof David West]

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:35:21 -0600, "Don Begley"
<DonBegley at jjwalker.biz> said:



> That leads to my theory on how various religious traditions came into  
> being. Once humans reached a level of caloric & social security that  
> allowed some citizens to live past their sexually and huntingly (sic)  
> productive years, the longer-lived individuals had to develop an  
> argument for being fed by their younger counterparts. What better way  
> than to promise they could bring the sun back if only they were fed  
> while they performed the necessary rituals.

Nice theory - but "social security" predated organized religion - a
combination of generalized reciprocity and the fact that the old frts
told good stories.

The invention of agriculture - generating for the first time a surplus
of food - inevitably resulted in the establishment of a formal religion
quickly followed by a "kingship" of some sort.  It was a question of
surplus distribution - who should decide what happened to the surplus?
coupled with the related question, who should control/possess the
surplus until distributed?  Unlike other tribal leadership roles, (e.g.
war chief, head hunter, shaman) it was not obvious - based on consensus
evaluation of individual skill sets - who should be "keeper of the
surplus" but this was obviously a nice job to have so ambitious but
otherwise unqualified types hit on the idea that they should do it
because god/the gods wanted them to.  An assertion beyond challenge.
First claims to kingship were also based on "divine right."

davew

>
> -d-

[Don Begley]

On Mar 31, 2008, at 8:56 AM, Prof David West wrote:

>
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:35:21 -0600, "Don Begley"
> <DonBegley at jjwalker.biz> said:
>
>
>
>> That leads to my theory on how various religious traditions came into
>> being. Once humans reached a level of caloric & social security that
>> allowed some citizens to live past their sexually and huntingly (sic)
>> productive years, the longer-lived individuals had to develop an
>> argument for being fed by their younger counterparts. What better way
>> than to promise they could bring the sun back if only they were fed
>> while they performed the necessary rituals.
>
> Nice theory - but "social security" predated organized religion - a
> combination of generalized reciprocity and the fact that the old frts
> told good stories.

My point. Have security, live longer, tell good stories (esp. wert  
keeping the gods happy so there would be more security), get fed soft  
food for bad teeth. <g>

>
>
> The invention of agriculture - generating for the first time a surplus
> of food - inevitably resulted in the establishment of a formal  
> religion
> quickly followed by a "kingship" of some sort.  It was a question of
> surplus distribution - who should decide what happened to the surplus?
> coupled with the related question, who should control/possess the
> surplus until distributed?  Unlike other tribal leadership roles,  
> (e.g.
> war chief, head hunter, shaman) it was not obvious - based on  
> consensus
> evaluation of individual skill sets - who should be "keeper of the
> surplus" but this was obviously a nice job to have so ambitious but
> otherwise unqualified types hit on the idea that they should do it
> because god/the gods wanted them to.  An assertion beyond challenge.
> First claims to kingship were also based on "divine right."
>

I sense the gods are unhappy and may take the sun away again soon if  
we don't please them. Pass me more soft food.

-d-

> davew
>
>>
>> -d-
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

[Robert Holmes]

Actually chaps, it's all Darwin. See last week's Economist article:
http://tinyurl.com/2ntgaf and today's JASSS article:
http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/11/2/2.html
Robert

--
Cycling 100 miles to raise $4500 - support me in raising money for the
Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. Please donate at
http://www.active.com/donate/tntnmep/robertholmes
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[Frank Wimberly]

> the longer-lived individuals had to develop an
> argument for being fed by their younger counterparts. What better way
> than to promise they could bring the sun back if only they were fed
> while they performed the necessary rituals.

My children (daughters) have grown skeptical.

Frank

-----Original Message-----
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:35:21 -0600, "Don Begley"
<DonBegley at jjwalker.biz> said:



> That leads to my theory on how various religious traditions came into  
> being. Once humans reached a level of caloric & social security that  
> allowed some citizens to live past their sexually and huntingly (sic)  
> productive years, the longer-lived individuals had to develop an  
> argument for being fed by their younger counterparts. What better way  
> than to promise they could bring the sun back if only they were fed  
> while they performed the necessary rituals.