The 10 Best Literary Works - the envelope please!
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Re: The 10 Best Literary Works - the envelope please!
 
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It's good to have some of those Spanish-language books that haven't already made it to our list. Did nobody mention "A Hundred Years of Solitude" (Cien an~os de Soledad)? And I can tell you that as a writer, I thought "El amor en los tiempos de colera" was stunning--an old master on top of his game, no tricks.
Thanks, Alfredo. On Oct 15, 2010, at 4:23 AM, Alfredo Covaleda wrote:
"How quickly weeks glide away in such a city as New York, especially when you reckon among your friends some of the most agreeable people in either hemisphere." Fanny Trollope, "Domestic Manners of the Americans"============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: The 10 Best Literary Works - the envelope please!
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In reply to this post by lrudolph
I'm not precisely sure how I would go about proving this, but I highly doubt that we could learn much if anything about "human nature" if we eliminated *figurative* language from our description of it. It is our very ability to "read between the lines", to "extrapolate and interpolate" that allows us to make generalizations about anything, most especially something as nebulous and fuzzy as "the human condition". Reading from the CIA Factbook, one might say "the mean height of the Swahili male is 1.97 meters with a variance of .2 meters" but in a travel book it might read "the Swahili are very tall, taller on average than most anyone you have ever met who does not play basketball for a living" and a work of fiction might go off in any direction to give you the true "gist" of just how tall the Swahili's are, and how it feels to be amongst them, etc. Now you might argue that in a work of fiction, there is nothing suggesting (nor requiring) that the author stay anywhere close to reality... the author might diverge by perhaps referring to "the Swahili" as some other much shorter group of people, perhaps preternaturally short people... and you would be right that the author propagated (knowingly or exceedingly sloppily) "false facts". But the same could happen in non-fiction... many poorly researched and written descriptions of other peoples and other places put forward huge misunderstandings as if they were fact. I read quite a variety of fiction and non-fiction... and when I read non-fiction I am always aware that the author may either be operating on a skewed model of their subject or may actually have gathered their facts poorly. I value non-fiction writers who are very good at what they do. With fiction writing, I rarely look for accuracy in *facts* except perhaps historical fiction, what I'm looking for are what I would call *deeper truths* about the human condition. Fiction uses parable and allegory to tell fundamental truths about the human condition. I would suggest that many of us learned more about the human condition by reading Bre'r Rabbit stories or watching the Roadrunner and Wiley E. Coyote cutting up than we do by reading the CIA Factbook or even Travel Books. I find it sad when people imagine that *Fiction* is nothing more than "entertainment". Jane Austen's novels may give me the best understanding of a certain class of people living in that era than I'll ever get short of becoming a scholar on that era. She may also have propagated numerous subjective slants of her own to me, but that doesn't stop me from reading several history books of the period (who may each paint a distinctly different picture themselves, based on the biases of the authors of *those* books) to help me frame what she wrote. - Steve On 14 Oct 2010 at 20:32, Robert J. Cordingley wrote: And Lee Rudolf wrote:I don't buy into the idea that it would help understand the 'human condition' because after all we are talking about fiction. a work of fiction can (probably) be used as an *idiographic* study of the "human condition" (if one wants to use it that way), but getting from one idiographic study (or a whole batch of them) to general conclusions is ... difficult. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: The 10 Best Literary Works - the envelope please!
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In reply to this post by Robert J. Cordingley
Robert C. wrote:
And perhaps by acknowledging Peter's "I truly can't believe anyone, even a Friamer, could pick up the volume cold and derive anything from it" avoid said problem with the right teacher. I want to squelch the idea of "teacher" right off the bat. Places too much emphasis on The Expert. I know this sounds paradoxical for me to say, after my emphasis on the importance of having an expert present in the group. But as we are thinking about what we are going to do with Robert's Wonderful List, I think we have to bear in mind that if Peter is correct, no "teacher" can rescue us. Nick -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 8:33 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The 10 Best Literary Works - the envelope please! As the poser of the original question... The Case for a Literary Education (as portrayed in my Joseph Epstein post) did little to justify the effort in my mind. I felt I could come up with a better justification. But then I reflected that it depends on one's time of life. For college age students a Literary Education may bear directly on one's career/life style goals. By studying the tales spun, not only might it increase one's vocabulary it might improve one's written communication skills for the benefit of many professional careers. Reports (technical and otherwise) have to be written, news stories submitted and other literary works created. All economic reasons. Later, it tends to fall into the category of entertainment either for the sheer fun of it, or in order to share a common interest with other like-minded fellow human beings. These days I am led more by curiosity to see what all the fuss is about than anything else. I don't buy into the idea that it would help understand the 'human condition' because after all we are talking about fiction. If Nick is successful in finding one, I see value in a leader/facilitator helping us potential seminar attendees get a better perspective, see the deeper meaning - if there is one - and feel personally enriched from the experience. And after all (someone posted) it is Art and isn't that what Art is for? And perhaps by acknowledging Peter's "I truly can't believe anyone, even a Friamer, could pick up the volume cold and derive anything from it" avoid said problem with the right teacher. Thanks Robert C On 10/14/10 7:13 PM, Stephen Thompson wrote: > Back to the original purpose of the 10 literary fiction works one > should read to > be considered literature literate: what was the purpose of the > original question? > > What does it mean to be literate in literature? > > 1. Just to have read the 'great works' of fiction? > 2. To read a great example of **character development**? > (a) early seminal works? > (b) later development of the technique? > (c) the development of the technique over a period of decades > or centuries? > (d) the fully developed epitome of the "technique"? > > Now insert any of the following words in place of "character development" > > plot and episode development > > descriptions (details, word-pictures of the settings etc) > (in movie terms: the cinematography behind the story) > > verisimilitude to real life (at that time in history) > > a great yarn > > a lesson of behavior, morals, etc. > > others? > > Doesn't literate mean to be able to know why a particular book is > in the great fiction canon? There are works in that may be depressing > as hell > to read, but they exhibit something that make the work great. > > So are you reading these books because you are looking for "a great > yarn"? > To say you have read the great books? > To compare character development between dead > white-northern-European-male and live-Hispanic-female writers? > > Presumably you want to increase your understanding of the human condition > as illustrated in certain works. As well as just knowing a few > "cultural facts" > such as what is conjured up in the mind by "..what light through > yonder window breaks?" > or "..if his chest were a cannon he would have shot his heart upon > it." (that's the idea ,but > I can't quite recall the exact quote. > > Will the reader be able to come to a greater understanding by reading > the work > alone? Need a commentary or study guide to develop the sensitivity to > the > value of that particular work? Study group? > > The list of 10 to 100 are great books all. But what do you want to > accomplish > by the end of 6-months, 12-months, 24-months? > Just know the story or **why** its a great story? > > Steph T > > > > > On 10/13/2010 10:27 PM, Steve Smith wrote: >> Glen - >>> I hope that large bowl of spaghetti-sentences helps clarify what I >>> meant. ;-) >> Oddly enough, It worked for me. >>> What we engaged in, here, is an exercise in credibility and reputation. >> I also particularly liked your endorsement of a wide variety of >> recommendation (provided by self-proclaimed wackos, as it were). I >> could have used *even more* radical suggestions but there were >> certainly some and your own list of authors in your explanation was a >> good reminder of how broad our collective knowledge/wisdom base is >> *even* while sticking to (mostly) dead (or soon to be) white men. >> >> - Steve >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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