T & P channels
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2020 Kavli Prize in Neuroscience
http://kavliprize.org/prizes-and-laureates/prizes/2020-kavli-prize-neuroscience > The Norwegian Academy of Science and Letters has decided to award the Kavli Prize in Neuroscience for 2020 to > > David Julius > University of California, San Francisco, US > > Ardem Patapoutian > Scripps Research, La Jolla, US > > “for their transformative discovery of receptors for temperature and pressure.” -- ☣ uǝlƃ -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Glen - Fascinating! I haven't been able/inclined to follow the literature closely in Piezos and the implications for proprioception and inertial sensations for years. When I started in VR work, almost nothing was known about pressure/touch and even less about proprioception/inertial sensations. Vision, sound, touch, even olfaction had decades of understanding at the sensor level and well beyond. Space medicine had a small handle on some things, being able to and needing to study the human body outside of the internal stresses from gravity. I found this fairly good summary of the topic circa 2017... I
think they say that piezo1/piezo2 were discovered in 2010. Fast
moving field!
I have mild synaesthesia which is part of what has fascinated me with VR... the most eerie experiences in VR environments I have had were associated with this. I remember acutely walking into the heart of a simulated stellar core floating in space in the LANL CAVE circa 2004... the first time I did it, the false-color encoding was on the warm end of the spectrum (yellow through red) and while it was fascinating to "feel" the sheer and even coriolis forces implied by being *visually* (only) immersed in the evolving, spinning "particles". The second time was hugely different as the researcher doing the work wanted to look at a different set of physical properties that were encoded in the cooler range (green-violet) and as soon as I stepped into the volume that the star was filling and the particles were "flowing past me", I felt, and even *smelled* a strong impression of cool moisture. I know/knew it was entirely synaesthetic and/or my higher cognition imposing on my lower sensory functions a model fit. My eyes told me I was in a "cool mist" and by golly my skin and sinuses decided it was easier to just agree with that rather than argue the point. For weeks, whenever I had the opportunity to show someone this model in the CAVE I would watch them closely to see if they had a similar (un-prompted) experience. I never saw anyone else do what I did, which was to pause, reach out and "feel" the mist on my forearms, and then breathe in (through my nose) the "cool particles". When prompted ("do you feel a cool mist?") a few would offer a mild (polite?) acknowledgement, but most were opaque to the experience I had. I also experimented with adjusting the color palette and found that once sensitized (prompted, expecting, etc.) that I could "feel" the warm particles as well, especially when shifting from the "cool" spectrum to the "warm" end. I guessed that this difference was primarily due to a scarcity of real world precedent in the warm, similar to a "cool mist"... maybe people in equatorial regions experience a "warm rain" similar to my "cool mist" but I've never had the pleasure. What is your stake/interest in the sensorium? - Steve On 5/28/20 6:43 AM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:
2020 Kavli Prize in Neuroscience http://kavliprize.org/prizes-and-laureates/prizes/2020-kavli-prize-neuroscienceThe Norwegian Academy of Science and Letters has decided to award the Kavli Prize in Neuroscience for 2020 to David Julius University of California, San Francisco, US Ardem Patapoutian Scripps Research, La Jolla, US “for their transformative discovery of receptors for temperature and pressure.” -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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Excellent synaesthesia story!
I have no interest/stake, really. But I do spend a lot of time modeling biology. And T&P perception matters to so many physiological mechanisms, I was happy to see these guys recognized explicitly. On 5/28/20 7:11 AM, Steve Smith wrote: > What is your stake/interest in the sensorium? -- ☣ uǝlƃ -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Glen - > Excellent synaesthesia story! > > I have no interest/stake, really. But I do spend a lot of time modeling biology. And T&P perception matters to so many physiological mechanisms, I was happy to see these guys recognized explicitly. I think this reflects one of the larger arcs of our discussions here: The lack of progress in these areas (T&P channels) until recently reflects the difficulty of doing this type of research more than a lack of interest in it, though the interest in it is perhaps naturally constrained by the lack of tools for effective research. So often some of these kinds of breakthroughs had ancient precedents where *someone* stumbled upon hints in the veritable dark but simply didn't have the tools or the community support to keep going with the insight gained. "looking for our keys where the light is good, rather than where we most likely dropped them". - Steve -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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In reply to this post by gepr
My elder daughter has severe synesthesia. Daughter: What's that word for deceitful testimony? It's yellow. Me: I have no idea what you're talking about. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Thu, May 28, 2020, 8:19 AM uǝlƃ ☣ <[hidden email]> wrote: Excellent synaesthesia story! -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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Frank -
My sympathies are with her. I'd be interested in hearing more
about her experience but don't want to invade her/your privacy
with specific questions. I've not encountered many people with
any significant experience with synaesthesia. My own experience
is more with texture than with the more common(ly described)
"grapheme" and grapheme-color oriented synaesthesia. I've never found my own (I call it mild) to be particularly
interfering with everyday life or communication, yet I do find
more and more examples of how it *mildly* interferes with my
sociability, my ability to communicate with others (as with your
example below). For the most part, it just *adds* to my
experience of the world, though it *might* have been my reason
(excuse) for seeming to be more of a daydreamer than my parents
wanted when I was a child (staring into the puddle I was supposed
to walk around, caressing the post I was supposed to be burying
for a fence, marveling at the clouds in the sky when I was
supposed to be "checking the weather"). I suspect that my strong attraction to (awareness of)
metaphorical constructions in everyday (up to and including most
scientific and mathematical discourse) may be grounded in the same
(overly fertile?) soil. This morning I had a mild epiphany
(hopefully it wasn't just a mini-stroke) regarding my preference
around the house for raw-wood finishes over painted ones, etc. I
was looking down the (rough-sawn timber) stair treads from the
deck on off of my second floor bedroom and seeing the various
woodgrain patterns which have gotten more pronounced over the 20
years since I installed them, resisting I don't know how many
people suggesting that i should variously
paint/stain/oil/varnish/seal these 3" thick x 16" deep x 3' wide
treads. The treads were taken from a couple of 20' long beams
that I bought at a local viga yard not far way, and the grain of
the tree they (both?) came from is significant, leading (over 2
decades) to a mild cupping in the direction implied by the
inner-vs-the-outer orientation of the donor tree (I believe it to
have been a fir tree from the Jemez which must have been at least
20" in diameter, given the sectioning I obtained). Nearly every
time I look at these stairs (or maybe more significantly, climb or
descend them, "feeling" their bow/cup, their texture, and the
"spring" in the stringers from ground to (cantilevered with it's
own minor spring) deck. I have a *visceral* experience of all of
this... I can *almost* feel the texture of the treads under my
bare feet (from one of the times I tread it barefoot) or hands as
I look at it. When I consider someone's admonition that "you
really should varnish/paint that" I can *feel* the plasticized
surface under my feet/hands whether I happen to be looking at the
staircase or not. Whether I am analytic about the experience (as I report here), these are the kinds of "feelings" that I have when I apprehend the various "natural materials" around my home(stead). The difference of "feel" I have when I walk across an unfinished mud floor in my sunroom vs the "feel" of the (less than perfectly) layed/leveled brick floors and the "feel" of the softwood random-plank (planed 1x6,8,10,12) I layed over the particle-board floor upstairs, and the "feel" of the engineered clip-lock bamboo "hardwood" I put into my bedroom last year is deeply "meaningful"? to me in some (non-analytic) sense. Similarly, when I look at or touch the (true) adobe wall of my courtyard vs the stucco'd frame construction of my house (same color, same surface texture but very different sense of heat-mass, solidness, larger-scale uniformity). I swear I can *smell* the adobe under the stucco of the courtyard wall vs the same batch of stucco covering the chicken-wire/tarpaper/OSB/frame/fiberglass-insulation/drywall construction of the two walls. Though I suspect this is *inferred* from my belief (and evidence in heat-mass/solidity/uniformity from other senses). I *can* smell the adobe in my sunroom floor (especially if I've accidentally wetted it while watering plants), but I doubt I can smell my (40 year's installed) bricks over cement-slab while I *can* smell the glue-free pine-plank flooring (20 years old) *and* the engineered bamboo flooring (1 year old) which seems to be *less* synthetic/glue smell (nominally the brand of bamboo flooring I bought is *mostly* "glued" together by heat/pressure of the bamboo itself, though there is a hardwood base that it is "glued" to with something synthetic (like epoxy resin). The point here (other than just introspective maundering) is that
some of my sensations are direct/literal, but others are
imputed?/inferred?/induced? by some subliminal interjection by my
mental models of what I'm seeing (and can be analytical about). I
don't know if this is similar to others with synaesthesia or if
what I'm experiencing isn't synaesthesia at all, but subconscious
*conflation* or *projection* like what I *think* glen
accuses/suspects me of when I apply metaphors everywhere. I
guess I'm admitting that what Glen calls out *might* be a
fundamental/deep pathology in *thinking?* and that this less
linguistic, more experiential thing I'm describing is another face
of it. I recently discovered the idea of Danko Nikolik's of ideasthesia
which may have informed some of these maunderings (about the
possible correlation between synaesthesia and metaphoria?). In
the very limited time I have spent with a psychoanalyst/therapist,
he (a staunch Freudian) did offer me a diagnosis of "ideaphoria"
which I took to be his own coined portmanteau. Some of this makes me wonder why *I* am not (more of?) a
hypochondriac. It seems like this kind of
conflation/projection/etc is the perfect context for "hearing
about a condition and abruptly experiencing it"? Maybe that is
why I eschew most medical engagement, I might get carried away
with it. It has been useful to be confronted by Glen's doubts about the
pervasive use/utility of metaphor... I can't say I can make a
better case for it, nor do I feel particularly less "loyal" to the
thought, but I do feel like I've explored the space (and it's
adjacencies) a little more (and expect to continue to). -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ |
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