So what IS trolling: WAS oxytocin, again
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So what IS trolling: WAS oxytocin, again
 
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Glen, inter alios, I think of trolling as attempting to destroy an internet conversation by ad hominems or other forms of harsh dismissive argument. But when I think of trolling as a metaphor developed on the child's story of the Three Billy Goat's gruff, then perhaps lurking under interesting arguments in order to provoke arguments only of interest to the troll fits the bill. The one is a kind of cruelty; the other is a form of cluelessness. Nick Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -----Original Message----- Once again the ingroup hormone is in the news: 1) A neurobiological association of revenge propensity during intergroup conflict <https://elifesciences.org/articles/52014> The link for the paper is the download icon in the upper right. But in skimming this paper, it seems to contradict what I inferred from this paper: 2) Oxytocin enhances pupil dilation and sensitivity to ‘hidden’ emotional expressions <https://academic.oup.com/scan/article/8/7/741/1653225> Granted, I expect to infer things not implied because I really have no idea what I'm reading. Whatever, I'm inspired by the other thread on acid epistemology to talk about things that cannot be talked about and run with the apparent contradiction. 8^) (2) seemed to say that oxytocin is a marker for being "on the look out", whereas (1) seems to imply it's a marker for being "in a state of trust/comfort/empathy/whatever". Endocrine signaling seems (in my ignorance) to be coarse and ambiguous. Since the body is made up of many quasi-autonomous components, an ebb or flow of a signal might take on different "meaning" depending on the *rest* of the conditions experienced by any given component. E.g. pupil dilation might occur in either context, where one's comfortable enough to be free of "fight or flight", but "on the look out" for subtle expressions in their ingroup team *or* safe enough to be free of "fight or flight", but "on the look out" for subtle expressions of subterfuge or betrayal in business negotiations (or whatever). I suppose a possible resolution of the contradiction might lie in the whole fast vs. slow thinking metaphor. If there are (at least) two conditions where one needs to be "on the look out", one fully engaged in fight or flight ... eyes darting around looking for the snake, pupils dilated ... or fully comfy on your couch listening to Enya ... pupils dilated hunting for the hidden emotional states of your dog. -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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Well, your "dragging the conversation into your own cave" does qualify. Trolling is a spectrum of behavior. But it all goes back to *provoking* a reaction. If one's intent is to provoke, then one's trolling.
But trolling isn't bad. I lump it into other provocative roles like Devil's Advocate, gadfly, contrarian, etc. At its best, trolling is a kind of critique, like irony or sarcasm, where the provoked reaction depends on the sophistication of the provoked person. An emotional cripple like Trump responds like a child when trolled. The people on FriAM are mostly adults who are either immune to trolling, or respond with the layered reactions one would expect. On 3/4/20 1:00 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > > I think of trolling as attempting to destroy an internet conversation by ad hominems or other forms of harsh dismissive argument. > > But when I think of trolling as a metaphor developed on the child's story of the Three Billy Goat's <https://americanliterature.com/childrens-stories/the-three-billy-goats-gruff> gruff, then perhaps lurking under interesting arguments in order to provoke arguments only of interest to the troll fits the bill. > > The one is a kind of cruelty; the other is a form of cluelessness. -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Re: So what IS trolling: WAS oxytocin, again
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Trolling, not that deep. on one end: being smart ass just to be a smart-------------------unintinally being a smartass--------------------just being a dick. For example:Someone on FB said they're having a coke sale to raise money for their doughters school. It went as well as you'd expect. Many people: Trolled by saying: How many case, and how much coke per a case, Well...that's one way to raise money. And went downhill in flames from there. That's trolling: the smart ass kind Unintentional trolling: Misreading a female friends text: What I read: I'm easy. Just fold the towels right when your done. So I said to her: "Uh...wow..well then! that's one way to get things off on the right foot" so she asked I what I was talking about, and I told her..and fortunatly it was taken humorously, and laughed (lol and smilly emojis). What she actually texted: "I'm easy, going. A pete peave? To not not just fold the towels, but fold them right !" Being a Dick: calling someone names, saying a on computer game Some types of charectors can do specific kinds of things knowing full well they can't. (World of Warcraft made that infamous) my put into a global chat channel long item names. saying you just now got them, how wonderful they are, and that you defeated chucknoris to do so!. That's just being a dick. And sometimes you might say: I think something is trolling me by saying something is possible. When it seems it seems it can't do, or doesn't work out it says it will. (Trying to open a soup can-- but the lid is just a bit to short for my can opener to get a grip on it right.) Google maps: It trolls. all the. time it'll say to go to Achme Road, over by cerillos make you turn and then my destination is the right...and there will be no road named Acme Road across from second Street, any where neer Cerillos, Also, trolling USPS: I think they might be master trolls: Your item will be on the way today!--It's expected to be here by (Date Here)...just to not show up till a week latter. On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 2:27 PM uǝlƃ ☣ <[hidden email]> wrote: Well, your "dragging the conversation into your own cave" does qualify. Trolling is a spectrum of behavior. But it all goes back to *provoking* a reaction. If one's intent is to provoke, then one's trolling. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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Thanks for recasting the unintentional troll. It happens all the time, everywhere. And as you point out, both the troller *and* the victims can be unaware. We can do more to align the dynamic triggers of the trolled with those of the troll.
On 3/5/20 12:56 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote: > Unintentional trolling: > Misreading a female friends text: What I read: I'm easy. Just fold the towels right when your done. So I said to her: "Uh...wow..well then! that's one way to get things off on the right foot" so she asked I what I was talking about, and I told her..and fortunatly it was taken humorously, and laughed (lol and smilly emojis). > What she actually texted: "I'm easy, going. A pete peave? To not not just fold the towels, but fold them right !" -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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