So, *Are* We Alone?
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Russell Standish put it well. But let me try a further comment. You wrote, "C. S. Peirce would point out that if you truly behave AS IF something is the case, then you believe it to be the case. To Peirce, that’s just what belief IS. "
According to that would Peirce say that animals have beliefs? They act as if something is the case. What about plants that turn toward the sun? If Peirce wants to define belief in that way, it's not clear to me what good that does in clarifying anything. -- Russ Abbott _____________________________________________ Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles Google voice: 747-999-5105 On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Nick Thompson
Nick,
It's actually pretty simple. No surprise, there, what with me being an engineer & all. There are only two requirements for getting me to believe in something:
Sadly, the topic of "induction" and all the intricacies involving the philosophy of "induction" as a thought process does not meet requirement number 1, above.
--Doug On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Doug Roberts [hidden email] [hidden email] ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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Let’s say you are a phd student. Let’s say you go to your orals committee and propose a dissertation topic. Let’s say, they ask you, why are you interested in that? You reply, “it just interests me.” Do you get the degree? Or let’s say you apply for a prestigious NSF fellowship. On the line which asks you to explain the importance of your proposed research you write, “It just interests me.” Will you get the money? Let’s say you are writing a paper for a leading journal in your field. In the introduction to the article you write, “The question chosen for research was one of great personal interest to me.” And then you go on to the Methods section. In the discussion section you write, “And thus my curiosity was satisfied.” Will it be published? If so, I wish I had known this all along. What a lot of work it would have saved. Nick From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Douglas Roberts Nick, It's actually pretty simple. No surprise, there, what with me being an engineer & all. There are only two requirements for getting me to believe in something:
Sadly, the topic of "induction" and all the intricacies involving the philosophy of "induction" as a thought process does not meet requirement number 1, above. --Doug On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi doug, and Bruce I realize that the following was hundreds of words deep in a verbose email message, and so it is understandable that you did not respond, but I am curious about your response. I think we either have to be prepared to say why our faith [in induction] is better than their [faith in God], or be prepared to be beaten all the way back into the Dark Ages. Hence my interest in the problem of induction. Also, I was curious about your comment that you were not all that keen on induction. Can you describe how, if not by induction, you come to believe things. Nick From: [hidden email] [hidden email] On Behalf Of Douglas Roberts
Yes, well; I'm not entirely sure it works that way, at least not for me. It's either interesting, or it's not. Examining how other folks derive their fascinations just doesn't, you know, get my hormones flowing. --Doug On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote: Where we seem to disagree is on one of my most fundatmental ideas: if somebody finds something interesting, there must be an underlying question or issue to which the phenomenon has gotten attached in their mind that I WOULD find interesting if I knew it. I was asking you to expand my experience. Or not. Nick From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Douglas Roberts
<Lilke> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Bruce Sherwood <[hidden email]> wrote: Uh, does there have to be a reason? I'm interested just because I am
> I go back to the original question I asked Owen. Why are these fantasies > INTERESTING?. Now, quickly, I have to admit, they don’t capture my > imagination that well. But I also have to admit that I firmly believe that > NOBODY is interested in anything for nothing. IE, wherever there is an > interest in something, there is a cognitive quandary, a seam in our thinking > that needs to be respected. So I assume that there IS a reason these > fantasies are interesting [to others] and that that REASON is interesting. > The reason is always more pragmantic and immediate than our fighting off > being absorbed into a black hole. Speaking of which: Weren’t the > Kardashians some race on some planet on StarTrek. What color where THEIR > noses? And how did the writers of StarTrek know they were coming > > > > Nick ============================================================ Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org --
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This is presumably a response to a note I wrote about a thousand
emails ago, in which I claimed for Owen (and me) the right to be interested in star populations and the evolution of sentience just simply because we're interested in it, and I didn't like your challenging us and asking for justification for our interest. He and I have no need to justify our interest to anyone, and as I said then I might as well question your right to be interested in some details of induction which I found really boring. In fact, there are lots of areas in which I have no interest, but it's really important that other people do have interest in them, which includes you being interested in induction. This is a different issue from what justification I had to make to the National Science Foundation to obtain funding for projects. But even there "interest" certainly plays a role. If I were sufficiently interested in the alien issue, I might well come up with compelling reasons why NSF should fund me to look more deeply into the matter, but I don't think I could ever muster enough interest to convince NSF to fund me to study scientist's attitudes toward induction, whereas you might be able to do so. Bruce On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote: > Let’s say you are a phd student. Let’s say you go to your orals committee > and propose a dissertation topic. Let’s say, they ask you, why are you > interested in that? You reply, “it just interests me.” Do you get the > degree? > > > > Or let’s say you apply for a prestigious NSF fellowship. On the line which > asks you to explain the importance of your proposed research you write, “It > just interests me.” > > > > Will you get the money? > > > > Let’s say you are writing a paper for a leading journal in your field. In > the introduction to the article you write, “The question chosen for research > was one of great personal interest to me.” And then you go on to the > Methods section. In the discussion section you write, “And thus my > curiosity was satisfied.” Will it be published? > > > > If so, I wish I had known this all along. What a lot of work it would have > saved. > > > > Nick ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
Hi, everybody, Somebody (whom I respect greatly) has “eldered” me, writing to say that I am in danger of driving everybody nuts with my new found interest in the logic of scientific inquiry. So I will give it a rest, and lurk for a month. If anybody wants to talk off line about any of the topics I have been pestering you about, I would of course be happy to do so. Take care. Talk to you on May 9th. Nick ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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Here I am on vacation .. The Broadmoor in Colorado springs .. And wanting to say that 1 wtf ?? Why would you leave such an interesting discussion? 2 who would ask you to end it?
3 ..etc When we fear for what is interesting to others, we forfeit our souls. Really, I fear for friam. ---- Owen On Apr 9, 2012, at 11:32 PM, "Nicholas Thompson" <<a href="javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'nickthompson@earthlink.net');" target="_blank">nickthompson@...> wrote:
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Re: Fwd: So, *Are* We Alone?
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Generally speaking, if a topic isn't interesting to me, I just pass over it. I don't expect other people--for whom it is interesting--to stop talking.
In fact, I find the logic of scientific inquiry very interesting. I think this is partly because what scientists actually do, and what philosophers say they do, is somewhat disjunct. I don't have anything to contribute to this discussion, but that doesn't mean I'm not reading or uhhumming as I read. Carry on, Nick et al. P. On Apr 11, 2012, at 2:18 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
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Ditto and right back atcha.
Incidentally, did anyone else on this list attend Rebecca Goldstein's talk on Intuition the other day? Victoria On Apr 11, 2012, at 12:27 PM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:
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Re: Fwd: So, *Are* We Alone?
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No, I had a hunch I wouldn't enjoy it.
--Doug
On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Victoria Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Fwd: So, *Are* We Alone?
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In reply to this post by Victoria Hughes
I did and enjoyed it a great deal. Thought about throwing some free floating intuitions into this discussion, but it's already littered with them.
-- rec --
2012/4/11 Victoria Hughes <[hidden email]>
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