Slashdot | Group Wants Wi-Fi Banned, Citing Allergy
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Slashdot | Group Wants Wi-Fi Banned, Citing Allergy
 
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Slashdot | Group Wants Wi-Fi Banned, Citing Allergy
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Owen, check out this link.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02/emf_richard_box.php Any comments? Orlando Leibovitz Owen Densmore wrote: >Santa Fe in the news! > http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/08/05/24/1234212.shtml > > -- Owen > > >============================================================ >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > -- Orlando Leibovitz orlando at orlandoleibovitz.com www.orlandoleibovitz.com Studio Telephone: 505-820-6183 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20080525/f3171b5d/attachment.html |
Slashdot | Group Wants Wi-Fi Banned, Citing Allergy
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On May 25, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Orlando Leibovitz wrote:
> Owen, check out this link. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02/emf_richard_box.php > Any comments? Orlando Leibovitz Sure. In all seriousness, we're always exposed to unanticipated dangers that take years to be understood. Rome and lead poisoning spring to mind. I do believe large power lines are problematic, I certainly wouldn't feel safe living under one. Actually, in this age of minimization, I'm hoping we can build small, safe, independent power sources that work at the neighborhood level and expand out in scope where needed into county and state size. Our current grid (no pun!) is a mess and has huge losses. Kim Sorvig has some great insights into these technologies. But one does have to wince at Santa Fe's constant buffoonery. -- Owen |
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Owen Densmore wrote:
> I do believe large power lines are problematic, I certainly wouldn't > feel safe living under one. > Typically there's a right-of-way the builder acquires that extends beyond the boundaries of the widest part of the line (say 150ft). This is so they can come through and fix whatever is needed, trim away brush, etc. That puts an upper limit on the magnetic field that adjacent homes could experience (say 50mG for a high current 230KV line) . An air conditioner or electric blanket could produce fields in that range. http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/emf.html |
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This like the WI-Fi argument is partly the argument of you start with
cheap engineering which has trade offs many are unknown and so we get rhetoric some good some bad most unknown period In the power industry all types of transmission lines including high voltage started with what was known basic materials and the product argument AC instead of DC ( which has a much reduced footprint of both magnetic and efficiency footprint ) as time roles on the potential problems are being identified and better engineering takes place at a higher cost. Transmission lines are being constructed differently ( Underground smart cable etc ) and DC is becoming more common simply because or poorly engineered lines the efficiency is around 40% getting worse in inclement weather Although there is voluminous data on both sides pro and con power line magnetic re cancer or other illness argument I do know this, having been in the power industry many many years All power plant operator control rooms are sealed in a Faraday cage design to prevent this type of interference its mandated in the design so if them why not us /. In another fascinating similar case on the subject of are Nuclear Power plants dangerous ? at Crystal River Florida unit 3 which is a nuc plant is surrounded by 4 coal fired plants U3 has a huge containment area with all the geiger counters in protected habitats. When i was there I asked if this is indicative of a problem at U3 and was told NO the coal dumps at the other plants were 5 times more radioactive than anything in Unit 3 and the coal kept triggering the alarms at U3. Wonder if thats a problem, well if you have a marble counter top take a geiger counter and try it its fun So which and what should we be worried about With wi fi or wi max it just a stepping stone on the road to good engineering to the ultimate Nivarna of FIBER to everything and if wacko agitation gets us there faster then I will wear a tin hat and shout with then 2 Besides this is Sf and this type of stagecraft is normal and who knows inside some of the paranoia there is probably some kernels of truth Personally I think its all a massive conspiracy by psychotherapists to drum up business so excuse me while I stick my head under the hair dryer for recharge as our SF brewery nut brown is running low ( : ( : pete Peter Baston *IDEAS* /www.ideapete.com/ <http://www.ideapete.com/> Marcus G. Daniels wrote: > <div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">Owen > Densmore wrote: >> I do believe large power lines are problematic, I certainly wouldn't >> feel safe living under one. >> > Typically there's a right-of-way the builder acquires that extends > beyond the boundaries of the widest part of the line (say 150ft). > This is so they can come through and fix whatever is needed, trim away > brush, etc. That puts an upper limit on the magnetic field that > adjacent homes could experience (say 50mG for a high current 230KV > line) . An air conditioner or electric blanket could produce fields > in that range. > > http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/emf.html > > > > </div> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20080526/8cc1dc3c/attachment.html |
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In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels
On May 25, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote: > Owen Densmore wrote: >> I do believe large power lines are problematic, I certainly wouldn't >> feel safe living under one. >> > Typically there's a right-of-way the builder acquires that extends > beyond the boundaries of the widest part of the line (say 150ft). > This > is so they can come through and fix whatever is needed, trim away > brush, > etc. That puts an upper limit on the magnetic field that adjacent > homes could experience (say 50mG for a high current 230KV line) . An > air conditioner or electric blanket could produce fields in that > range. > > http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/emf.html A delayed comment but worth noting: while I concur the EMF scare was just that, it doesn't mean living below a power line is uneventful. Years ago, a transmission engineer friend and mentor took me to a 345kV line south of Albuquerque in the Mesa del Sol area to demonstrate its power. On a hot summer day we stood under the line at a point where a barbed wire fence protruded from a sand drift. "Grab it," he said, pointing to the fence. I did but only long enough to drop it. The wire was humming with enough electricity to make the experience decidedly unpleasant. This probably wouldn't happen in winter. In summer,however, the load on the line is maxed as is the sag in the line from the heat of the load, bringing it near the closest point to the ground allowed by design standards and close enough to excite electrons in the barbed wire. -d- |
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On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 05:24:35PM -0600, Don Begley wrote:
> > A delayed comment but worth noting: while I concur the EMF scare was > just that, it doesn't mean living below a power line is uneventful. > Years ago, a transmission engineer friend and mentor took me to a > 345kV line south of Albuquerque in the Mesa del Sol area to > demonstrate its power. On a hot summer day we stood under the line at > a point where a barbed wire fence protruded from a sand drift. "Grab > it," he said, pointing to the fence. I did but only long enough to > drop it. The wire was humming with enough electricity to make the > experience decidedly unpleasant. > > This probably wouldn't happen in winter. In summer,however, the load > on the line is maxed as is the sag in the line from the heat of the > load, bringing it near the closest point to the ground allowed by > design standards and close enough to excite electrons in the barbed > wire. > > -d- > Probably more a matter of the sand being dry enough for the barbed wire to be electrically decoupled from you. I've seen similar EMF coupling effects in ordinary household 240V power, if things are sufficiently well earthed. Doesn't mean it injurious to health, however. The normal impedance of a human being is 5-6 orders of magnitude higher than barbed wire! -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Mathematics UNSW SYDNEY 2052 hpcoder at hpcoders.com.au Australia http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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On Jun 2, 2008, at 5:54 PM, Russell Standish wrote: > On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 05:24:35PM -0600, Don Begley wrote: >> >> A delayed comment but worth noting: while I concur the EMF scare was >> just that, it doesn't mean living below a power line is uneventful. >> Years ago, a transmission engineer friend and mentor took me to a >> 345kV line south of Albuquerque in the Mesa del Sol area to >> demonstrate its power. On a hot summer day we stood under the line at >> a point where a barbed wire fence protruded from a sand drift. "Grab >> it," he said, pointing to the fence. I did but only long enough to >> drop it. The wire was humming with enough electricity to make the >> experience decidedly unpleasant. >> >> This probably wouldn't happen in winter. In summer,however, the load >> on the line is maxed as is the sag in the line from the heat of the >> load, bringing it near the closest point to the ground allowed by >> design standards and close enough to excite electrons in the barbed >> wire. >> >> -d- >> > > Probably more a matter of the sand being dry enough for the barbed > wire to be electrically decoupled from you. I've seen similar EMF > coupling effects in ordinary household 240V power, if things are > sufficiently well earthed. > > Doesn't mean it injurious to health, however. The normal impedance > of a human > being is 5-6 orders of magnitude higher than barbed wire! Definitely, the wire was earthed. FWIW, however, the engineer said the energy came from the power line and sensible only in those summer. -d- > > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > Mathematics > UNSW SYDNEY 2052 hpcoder at hpcoders.com.au > Australia http://www.hpcoders.com.au > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > |
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On Tue, Jun 03, 2008 at 04:09:55PM -0600, Don Begley wrote:
> > > > Probably more a matter of the sand being dry enough for the barbed > > wire to be electrically decoupled from you. I've seen similar EMF > > coupling effects in ordinary household 240V power, if things are > > sufficiently well earthed. > > > > Doesn't mean it injurious to health, however. The normal impedance > > of a human > > being is 5-6 orders of magnitude higher than barbed wire! > > > Definitely, the wire was earthed. FWIW, however, the engineer said the > energy came from the power line and sensible only in those summer. > > -d- Due to gremlins in the system, I meant to say "not sufficently well earthed". I thought this might be the case if the sand was sufficiently dry, then the barbed wire may be a floating conductor. Ah well... -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Mathematics UNSW SYDNEY 2052 hpcoder at hpcoders.com.au Australia http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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On Jun 3, 2008, at 8:12 PM, Russell Standish wrote: > On Tue, Jun 03, 2008 at 04:09:55PM -0600, Don Begley wrote: >>> >>> Probably more a matter of the sand being dry enough for the barbed >>> wire to be electrically decoupled from you. I've seen similar EMF >>> coupling effects in ordinary household 240V power, if things are >>> sufficiently well earthed. >>> >>> Doesn't mean it injurious to health, however. The normal impedance >>> of a human >>> being is 5-6 orders of magnitude higher than barbed wire! >> >> >> Definitely, the wire was earthed. FWIW, however, the engineer said >> the >> energy came from the power line and sensible only in those summer. >> >> -d- > > Due to gremlins in the system, I meant to say "not sufficently well > earthed". I thought this might be the case if the sand was > sufficiently dry, then the barbed wire may be a floating conductor. > > Ah well... I'm not sophisticated enough to catch the discrepancy. The wire was 'earthed' in the sense that it was mostly buried. The sand was probably quite dry given the local climate. -d- |
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