Friam

Science Commits Suicide (yes, another trolling headline)

Classic

List

Threaded

26 messages Options

Jochen Fromm-5

Re: Science Commits Suicide

I have heard of Penrose and his idea of Quantum Consciousness. Some of the Weinstein podcasts are interesting. But Eric works for Peter Thiel, who has not the best image. And Bret seems to be eaten up by his bitterness and revenge fantasies, because Carol Greider has stolen his idea and got the Nobel Prize and he has nothing.

From my own experience in the academic world I can confirm that there is a true core behind the myth (or conspiracy theory) of the DISC.

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: Jon Zingale <[hidden email]>

Date: 6/2/20 00:33 (GMT+01:00)

To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Science Commits Suicide

Jochen,

What is kind of funny is that two episodes later,

rather than forcefully pushing his DISC-obsessed

program forward, he invites Roger Penrose on to

the show to have a really satisfying and very

straightforward discussion of mathematics and

physics. They talk Gauge theory, Riemannian

geometry, light cones, the mass of particles,

spinors, twistors, Aharonov-Bohm, Maxwell,

Lie groups, and what makes 15 dimensional

spaces unique.

Jon

-- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - .... . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/

jon zingale

Re: Science Commits Suicide

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5

Jochen,

I tend to agree with your analysis of Eric, Bret, and the DISC.
The hat of Roger Penrose that I am most interested in, and
that I am thankful to Eric for accessing, is Penrose as Geometer.
It is a take and a history that doesn't get the same air time that
more pop-science oriented ideas get. Sometimes I feel that this is
how the DISC, or perhaps a an economic variant, operates in the
public sphere of youtube and social media. There are these very
interesting minds, capable of offering very rich historical insight,
doing the pop-intellectual circuit lecturing on something else
altogether. I am thankful for this interview because it shows that
the commons need not be tragic.

Jon

Jochen Fromm-5

Re: Science Commits Suicide

In a sense globalism is a Ponzi scheme for exploitation of workers which has now started to reache its limits. Companies outsource the production to eastern European countries which outsource it to China which outsource it to the Uighurs and North Korea and so on and so forth. But the number of countries is finite, and for the Uighurs in the concentration camps it is hell.

The Jeffrey Epstein system was a kind of sex offender Ponzi scheme from all I have heard so far (which involved Mar-a-Lago too as recruiting pool).

Maybe science is sometimes a kind of Ponzi scheme for academics? A professor needs staff to make publications, and all of the junior academics in this staff need staff as well to become a professor. But you can only discover America or Quantum Mechanics once.

What happens then as an unintended consequence is that people start to learn how to play the game. They produce scientific papers that look like papers and feel like papers but which do not contain real scientific insights. I believe we all know these papers well. People produce them because they have to it if they want to keep their job.

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: Jon Zingale <[hidden email]>

Date: 6/2/20 16:43 (GMT+01:00)

To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Science Commits Suicide

Jochen,

Jon

thompnickson2

Re: Science Commits Suicide

In reply to this post by jon zingale

Jochen,

My evidence about the brothers Weinstein comes solely from that one, brother-to-brother, podcast which I watched with utter (watching a trainwreck) fascination. I have never met an academic who doesn’t think that, in some sense, s/he deserves a Nobel prize. Some of us are consumed by it, and, I am guessing, it’s those folks get the Nobel prizes. The rest of us live out happy lives of muted disappointment. As I read that podcast, Bret was not consumed by it; Eric, on the other hand, was consumed by Bret’s lack of consumption. Sounds like a soap opera, doesn’t it? Cult of the Individual.

I was so moved by it, I have been drafting a letter to them, which is only a synopsis of all that it stirred up in me. Perhaps you would like to see it. God know it would never break through to them. In any case, I recommend you throw out your Vioxx.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 12:19 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Science Commits Suicide

From my own experience in the academic world I can confirm that there is a true core behind the myth (or conspiracy theory) of the DISC.

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: Jon Zingale <[hidden email]>

Date: 6/2/20 00:33 (GMT+01:00)

To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Science Commits Suicide

Jochen,

What is kind of funny is that two episodes later,

rather than forcefully pushing his DISC-obsessed

program forward, he invites Roger Penrose on to

the show to have a really satisfying and very

straightforward discussion of mathematics and

physics. They talk Gauge theory, Riemannian

geometry, light cones, the mass of particles,

spinors, twistors, Aharonov-Bohm, Maxwell,

Lie groups, and what makes 15 dimensional

spaces unique.

Jon

Jochen Fromm-5

Re: Science Commits Suicide

Sure, I would like to see it, maybe the others too? I have a feeling that there is something evil about the Weinstein brothers, though. I watched the discussion between Richard Dawkins and Bret Weinstein for instance, and Richard Dawkins was awesome, he focused on ideas and explained them clearly while Bret only talked about himself and his ideas, and made flattering comments such as Narcissists do, especially in the last 20 minutes. People with NPD do exactly that, they are masters of self-promotion and flattery who mainly talk about themselves

https://youtu.be/hYzU-DoEV6k

Dawkins said in this interview that genes and memes would tussle each other in a great soup of replicators. There would be various kinds of replicators, genes and memes, and they are all engaged in a kind of tussle with each other to survive as replicators. A whole genome would be a massive collection of "cooperative" viruses who share the same vehicle to go around as a gang and replicate themselves.

This means that a genome is a bundle of cooperative viruses, and a virus is like a selfish gene that goes awry. A virus is like a gene with a narcissistic personality disorder so to speak. Could a virus be seen as a selfish gene gone rogue? I like this idea.

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: [hidden email]

Date: 6/2/20 17:57 (GMT+01:00)

To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Science Commits Suicide

Jochen,

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From my own experience in the academic world I can confirm that there is a true core behind the myth (or conspiracy theory) of the DISC.

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: Jon Zingale <[hidden email]>

Date: 6/2/20 00:33 (GMT+01:00)

To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Science Commits Suicide

Jochen,

What is kind of funny is that two episodes later,

rather than forcefully pushing his DISC-obsessed

program forward, he invites Roger Penrose on to

the show to have a really satisfying and very

straightforward discussion of mathematics and

physics. They talk Gauge theory, Riemannian

geometry, light cones, the mass of particles,

spinors, twistors, Aharonov-Bohm, Maxwell,

Lie groups, and what makes 15 dimensional

spaces unique.

Jon

thompnickson2

Re: Science Commits Suicide

In reply to this post by jon zingale

Jochen,

When I joined the academic world, it was in the last days of the ill-paid, odd-ball, professor, entangled in ivy, cloaked in moth-eaten tweeds, harboring dreams of making The Great Discovery. That’s the life I bought into. The deal I accepted was that I would not be paid much money, and, in return, I could think about pretty much whatever I wanted to think about. Slow summers in some shack in the Appalachians, pondering the great unknowns.

First there was Sputnik, which made professors think of themselves as celebrities. And then there was Academic Reaganism, that enforced a production metaphor on us. I mourn the loss of the Jimmy Stewart professor.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 9:51 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Science Commits Suicide

The Jeffrey Epstein system was a kind of sex offender Ponzi scheme from all I have heard so far (which involved Mar-a-Lago too as recruiting pool).

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: Jon Zingale <[hidden email]>

Date: 6/2/20 16:43 (GMT+01:00)

To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Science Commits Suicide

Jochen,

Jon