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Scholars and Ignorance

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Nick Thompson

Scholars and Ignorance

Phil,

My experience in academia is that the first impulse of any scholar is to
defend himself againt anything new. I know I do it myself. Having
somebody convince you of something new is like being given a new computer.
Yeah, I s uppose it will be wonderful inthe future, but right now I have to
spend the next 20 days loading new softward and learning new programs and
reading "manuals" and hanging on phones with techsupport people. Who wants
any of THAT?

Also, i think even well read scholars continue to think that nobody
understands them. There is a wonderful passag in Darwin's Dangerous Idea
where dennett goes windging on about how nobody reads him and nobody cares.
(Yes, that WOULD be Daniel Dennett of the 15 best sellers, etc. ) I thnk
most scholars thrive on solitude, and if they dont have it, they will
invent it.

One of my great dissapointments about having been an academic for 40 years
was the rarety of intellectual community in academia. This is how the
friam group in Santa Fe is so extraordinary: despite working hard to make
a living, they are still almost the only group of people I have ever
worked with that really has intellectual curiosity.

So here is my prescription for survival in a savage world: develop the
intellectual communities that you can, take them where they will go, and
forget the schmucks with the big royalty packages.

You heard if first from me,

Nick

> [Original Message]
> From: <friam-request at redfish.com>
> To: <friam at redfish.com>
> Date: 3/26/2007 11:06:15 AM
> Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 45, Issue 19
>
> Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> friam at redfish.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> friam-request at redfish.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> friam-owner at redfish.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Friam Digest, Vol 45, Issue 18 (Nicholas Thompson)
> 2. Re: Friam Digest, Vol 45, Issue 18 (Phil Henshaw)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:29:17 -0600
> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Friam Digest, Vol 45, Issue 18
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Message-ID: <380-22007302518291768 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Thanks, Phil,
>
> there is no kindness that one academic can give another that is greater
> than a reading of his work.
>
> I think in the New Academia, professors will be given tenure for reading.
> Any fool can write.
>
> I have responded off line.
>
> Nick
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <friam-request at redfish.com>
> > To: <friam at redfish.com>
> > Date: 3/25/2007 11:02:54 AM
> > Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 45, Issue 18
> >
> > Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> > friam at redfish.com
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > friam-request at redfish.com
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > friam-owner at redfish.com
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Emergence blindness as an Adaptive Trait (Phil Henshaw)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:29:05 -0400
> > From: "Phil Henshaw" <sy at synapse9.com>
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Emergence blindness as an Adaptive Trait
> > To: <nickthompson at earthlink.net>, "'The Friday Morning Applied
> > Complexity Coffee Group'" <friam at redfish.com>
> > Message-ID: <000501c76e74$98917640$2f01a8c0 at SavyII>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Thanks Nick, a rather accurate depiction I think. But as the complaint
> > displays, the fact that some individuals can see the perceptual problem,
> > that people are more or less blind to emergence for some deep reason,
> > does not in itself generate a solution, like learning how to see.
> > That's what puzzles me about why absolutely no one asks me about my
> > rigorous scientific method of identifying emergent systems as
> > individuals and closely watching their evolving structures . Yea,
> > well, it involves a slightly different set of questions. What would
> > you expect!
> >
> > Learning questions is messier than learning answers perhaps. What I do
> > is start by picking questions according to whether they can be answered.
> > That's just more productive. Asking when where and how the animation
> > of local events begins and ends is one of them. That turns out to be
> > emergence, and I think all the disciplinary models fit as
> > interpretations of that from different perspectives.
> >
> >
> > Phil Henshaw ????.?? ? `?.????
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > 680 Ft. Washington Ave
> > NY NY 10040
> > tel: 212-795-4844
> > e-mail: pfh at synapse9.com
> > explorations: www.synapse9.com <http://www.synapse9.com/>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On
> > Behalf Of Nicholas Thompson
> > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:39 AM
> > To: Friam at redfish.com
> > Subject: [FRIAM] Emergence blindness as an Adaptive Trait
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > All, particularly those in the Home Church.
> >
> > On Wednesday, we got into it about emergence and so I thought I would
> > offer the attached file from a few years back, when the Bush
> > administration was still an ugly rumor.
> >
> > . Here is the abstract, in case you aren't awash in free time.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> > ABSTRACT. We [me and two reluctant colleagues] hypothesize that, because
> > human minds are ill prepared by natural selection to perceive emergence,
> > the achievements of groups that arise from their good functioning as
> > groups easily goes unnoticed. This perceptual flaw has been an obstacle
> > for developmental science, as it has been for biologists who want to
> > look at the productivity of groups as opposed to the productivity of the
> > individuals that make them up. Humans tend either (1) to attribute the
> > non-additive productivity of the group to one of its members, investing
> > him or her with special powers of ?leadership?, or (2 ) to invent an
> > additional supernatural member of the group -- a spirit or god -- to
> > account for its hyper-productivity. Either method of resolving the
> > cognitive problem posed by emergence is likely to make the group?s
> > individuals more readily subject to the demands of group members who
> > appear to embody or speak for the source of this hyper-productivity.
> > Thus, selection at the group level will favor such cognitive
> > misattributions because they make groups more coherent and enhance their
> > emergent qualities.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University
> > (nthompson at clarku.edu)
> > Research Associate, Redfish Group, Santa Fe, NM (nick at redfish.com)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
>

http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20070324/b6670a85

> /attachment-0001.html
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Friam mailing list
> > Friam at redfish.com
> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> >
> >
> > End of Friam Digest, Vol 45, Issue 18
> > *************************************
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:05:09 -0400
> From: "Phil Henshaw" <sy at synapse9.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Friam Digest, Vol 45, Issue 18
> To: <nickthompson at earthlink.net>, "'The Friday Morning Applied
> Complexity Coffee Group'" <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <000901c76f42$cdb45260$2f01a8c0 at SavyII>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Yes, but isn't that one of the curious structures of nature, that
> readers inexplicably always have the last word? I suggest looking
> through a new kind of microscope, all sorts of new sort of living
> things, readers say, not a chance, nothing there but dust!
>
>
> Phil Henshaw ????.?? ? `?.????
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 680 Ft. Washington Ave
> NY NY 10040
> tel: 212-795-4844
> e-mail: pfh at synapse9.com
> explorations: www.synapse9.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> > [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Nicholas Thompson
> > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 2:29 PM
> > To: friam at redfish.com
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Friam Digest, Vol 45, Issue 18
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Phil,
> >
> > there is no kindness that one academic can give another that
> > is greater than a reading of his work.
> >
> > I think in the New Academia, professors will be given tenure
> > for reading.
> > Any fool can write.
> >
> > I have responded off line.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: <friam-request at redfish.com>
> > > To: <friam at redfish.com>
> > > Date: 3/25/2007 11:02:54 AM
> > > Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 45, Issue 18
> > >
> > > Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> > > friam at redfish.com
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > friam-request at redfish.com
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > friam-owner at redfish.com
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Re: Emergence blindness as an Adaptive Trait (Phil Henshaw)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:29:05 -0400
> > > From: "Phil Henshaw" <sy at synapse9.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Emergence blindness as an Adaptive Trait
> > > To: <nickthompson at earthlink.net>, "'The Friday Morning Applied
> > > Complexity Coffee Group'" <friam at redfish.com>
> > > Message-ID: <000501c76e74$98917640$2f01a8c0 at SavyII>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >
> > > Thanks Nick, a rather accurate depiction I think. But as
> > the complaint
> > > displays, the fact that some individuals can see the perceptual
> > > problem, that people are more or less blind to emergence
> > for some deep
> > > reason, does not in itself generate a solution, like
> > learning how to
> > > see. That's what puzzles me about why absolutely no one
> > asks me about
> > > my rigorous scientific method of identifying emergent systems as
> > > individuals and closely watching their evolving structures . Yea,
> > > well, it involves a slightly different set of questions.
> > What would
> > > you expect!
> > >
> > > Learning questions is messier than learning answers
> > perhaps. What I do
> > > is start by picking questions according to whether they can
> > be answered.
> > > That's just more productive. Asking when where and how
> > the animation
> > > of local events begins and ends is one of them. That turns
> > out to be
> > > emergence, and I think all the disciplinary models fit as
> > > interpretations of that from different perspectives.
> > >
> > >
> > > Phil Henshaw ????.?? ? `?.????
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > 680 Ft. Washington Ave
> > > NY NY 10040
> > > tel: 212-795-4844
> > > e-mail: pfh at synapse9.com
> > > explorations: www.synapse9.com <http://www.synapse9.com/>
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> > [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Nicholas Thompson
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:39 AM
> > > To: Friam at redfish.com
> > > Subject: [FRIAM] Emergence blindness as an Adaptive Trait
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > All, particularly those in the Home Church.
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, we got into it about emergence and so I
> > thought I would
> > > offer the attached file from a few years back, when the Bush
> > > administration was still an ugly rumor.
> > >
> > > . Here is the abstract, in case you aren't awash in free time.
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ABSTRACT. We [me and two reluctant colleagues] hypothesize that,
> > > because human minds are ill prepared by natural selection
> > to perceive
> > > emergence, the achievements of groups that arise from their good
> > > functioning as groups easily goes unnoticed. This
> > perceptual flaw has
> > > been an obstacle for developmental science, as it has been for
> > > biologists who want to look at the productivity of groups
> > as opposed
> > > to the productivity of the individuals that make them up.
> > Humans tend
> > > either (1) to attribute the non-additive productivity of
> > the group to
> > > one of its members, investing him or her with special powers of
> > > ?leadership?, or (2 ) to invent an additional supernatural
> > member of the group -- a spirit or god -- to
> > > account for its hyper-productivity. Either method of resolving the
> > > cognitive problem posed by emergence is likely to make the group?s
> > > individuals more readily subject to the demands of group
> > members who
> > > appear to embody or speak for the source of this
> > hyper-productivity.
> > > Thus, selection at the group level will favor such cognitive
> > > misattributions because they make groups more coherent and enhance
> > > their emergent qualities.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > > Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University
> > > (nthompson at clarku.edu)
> > > Research Associate, Redfish Group, Santa Fe, NM (nick at redfish.com)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL:
> > http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/200
> 70324/b6670a85
> /attachment-0001.html
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Friam mailing list
> > Friam at redfish.com
> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> >
> >
> > End of Friam Digest, Vol 45, Issue 18
> > *************************************
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Friam mailing list
> Friam at redfish.com
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>
>
> End of Friam Digest, Vol 45, Issue 19
> *************************************

Günther Greindl

Scholars and Ignorance

Dear Nick,

thanks for your email, it resonated very much with me, and I agree, even
in academia only a handful of people have intellectual curiosity. :-(

So strange that academia is a lonely place for thinkers all too often.

I am happy to be able to share somewhat in the intellectual community of
Sante Fe with the FRIAM List! Those are the wonders of the Internet.

Best Regards,
G?nther

Nicholas Thompson wrote:

> Phil,
>
> My experience in academia is that the first impulse of any scholar is to
> defend himself againt anything new. I know I do it myself. Having
> somebody convince you of something new is like being given a new computer.
> Yeah, I s uppose it will be wonderful inthe future, but right now I have to
> spend the next 20 days loading new softward and learning new programs and
> reading "manuals" and hanging on phones with techsupport people. Who wants
> any of THAT?
>
> Also, i think even well read scholars continue to think that nobody
> understands them. There is a wonderful passag in Darwin's Dangerous Idea
> where dennett goes windging on about how nobody reads him and nobody cares.
> (Yes, that WOULD be Daniel Dennett of the 15 best sellers, etc. ) I thnk
> most scholars thrive on solitude, and if they dont have it, they will
> invent it.
>
> One of my great dissapointments about having been an academic for 40 years
> was the rarety of intellectual community in academia. This is how the
> friam group in Santa Fe is so extraordinary: despite working hard to make
> a living, they are still almost the only group of people I have ever
> worked with that really has intellectual curiosity.
>
> So here is my prescription for survival in a savage world: develop the
> intellectual communities that you can, take them where they will go, and
> forget the schmucks with the big royalty packages.
>
> You heard if first from me,
>
> Nick
>
>

--
G?nther Greindl
Departement of Philosophy of Science
University of Vienna
guenther.greindl at univie.ac.at

Blog: http://dao.complexitystudies.org/
Site: http://www.complexitystudies.org

--
G?nther Greindl
Departement of Philosophy of Science
University of Vienna
guenther.greindl at univie.ac.at

Blog: http://dao.complexitystudies.org/
Site: http://www.complexitystudies.org

Phil Henshaw-2

Scholars and Ignorance

Well, seeing a little opening, maybe it's what Nick and I were sort of
saying in the first place, that reading is far more difficult than it is
reputed to be, at least as hard as writing. With reading all you have
is a bunch of words to go bye, are missing the whole context of nuanced
life experience the writer invested them with, and have to piece
together the whole thing. Well, that is, if the way you're reading is
not just for stroking your own peeves and prejudices, but trying to
discover the other world that the words on the page came from.

I find I actually carefully read and absorb a substantial part of only
two or three books a year, and that it often takes me several days to
absorb the pages where the author's ideas are coming together, read over
and over and over with sleep in-between. I almost never finish
anything. I skim dozens of books and articles for their flavor and to
find the critical insights and errors and things, but that's not really
reading. Reading is very difficult.

Phil Henshaw ????.?? ? `?.????
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
680 Ft. Washington Ave
NY NY 10040
tel: 212-795-4844
e-mail: pfh at synapse9.com
explorations: www.synapse9.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of G?nther Greindl
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 4:34 PM
> To: nickthompson at earthlink.net; The Friday Morning Applied
> Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Scholars and Ignorance
>
>
> Dear Nick,
>
> thanks for your email, it resonated very much with me, and I
> agree, even
> in academia only a handful of people have intellectual curiosity. :-(
>
> So strange that academia is a lonely place for thinkers all too often.
>
> I am happy to be able to share somewhat in the intellectual
> community of
> Sante Fe with the FRIAM List! Those are the wonders of the Internet.
>
> Best Regards,
> G?nther
>
> Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> > Phil,
> >
> > My experience in academia is that the first impulse of any
> scholar is
> > to defend himself againt anything new. I know I do it
> myself. Having
> > somebody convince you of something new is like being given a new
> > computer. Yeah, I s uppose it will be wonderful inthe future, but
> > right now I have to spend the next 20 days loading new softward and
> > learning new programs and reading "manuals" and hanging on
> phones with
> > techsupport people. Who wants any of THAT?
> >
> > Also, i think even well read scholars continue to think that nobody
> > understands them. There is a wonderful passag in Darwin's
> Dangerous
> > Idea where dennett goes windging on about how nobody reads him and
> > nobody cares. (Yes, that WOULD be Daniel Dennett of the 15 best
> > sellers, etc. ) I thnk most scholars thrive on solitude,
> and if they
> > dont have it, they will invent it.
> >
> > One of my great dissapointments about having been an
> academic for 40
> > years was the rarety of intellectual community in academia.
> This is
> > how the friam group in Santa Fe is so extraordinary:
> despite working
> > hard to make a living, they are still almost the only
> group of people
> > I have ever worked with that really has intellectual curiosity.
> >
> > So here is my prescription for survival in a savage world: develop
> > the intellectual communities that you can, take them where
> they will
> > go, and forget the schmucks with the big royalty packages.
> >
> > You heard if first from me,
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
>
> --
> G?nther Greindl
> Departement of Philosophy of Science
> University of Vienna
> guenther.greindl at univie.ac.at
>
> Blog: http://dao.complexitystudies.org/
> Site: http://www.complexitystudies.org
>
> --
> G?nther Greindl
> Departement of Philosophy of Science
> University of Vienna
> guenther.greindl at univie.ac.at
>
> Blog: http://dao.complexitystudies.org/
> Site: http://www.complexitystudies.org
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>