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Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Nick Thompson

Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In all the conversations about Columbine, Newtown etc., why has this (“amuck”) not come up? It has a history, a cultural “place”, and even a DSMIV designation! Is it one of those little-seen individual propensities that evolution has placed in us because it was extraordinarily useful to small groups at the edge of extermination by competing groups?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_amok

I wonder how this knowledge might guide our approach to the phenomenon. Also, cf, “road rage.”

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gepr

Re: Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On 01/03/2016 10:47 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> Is it one of those little-seen individual propensities
> that evolution has placed in us because it was extraordinarily useful to
> small groups at the edge of extermination by competing groups?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_amok

"usually by a single individual following a period of brooding"

Given the alleged motivations of some of our group terrorists (e.g. those that took over Malheur this weekend) and those of some of the individuals, I'm left wondering how much is "usual"?

--
⊥ glen ⊥

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Nick Thompson

Re: Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aw, Glen. You are probably right, as usual. Another great and beautiful theory crushed by ugly little facts. And as a behaviorist, what am I doing trotting out a "propensity" theory, anyway?

Still, there was something about reading those cultural descriptions of "amuck" that seemed to set these things in a new context.

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 8:55 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On 01/03/2016 10:47 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> Is it one of those little-seen individual propensities that evolution
> has placed in us because it was extraordinarily useful to small groups
> at the edge of extermination by competing groups?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_amok

"usually by a single individual following a period of brooding"

Given the alleged motivations of some of our group terrorists (e.g. those that took over Malheur this weekend) and those of some of the individuals, I'm left wondering how much is "usual"?

--
⊥ glen ⊥

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

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Owen Densmore

Re: Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Administrator

Slightly off-topic, but the mention of Malheur reminded me of a conversation in the men's changing room yesterday at Quail Run.

The Big Short started the discussion, and one guy said ".. but you can't trust anybody anymore, and the government is worst of all! Why aren't most of the bankers who caused the Financial Crisis in jail?".

This prompted another guy to say: "the only honest guys running for president are Trump and Sanders". Trump? Then "Hillary is in the banks pockets just like the rest."

Well, true .. and why *aren't* the bankers in big trouble rather than continuing to be too big to fail and building even more risky financial stunts? As far as I know, only one banker is in jail and it is in Europe, not the US.

And these weren't idiots, just folks angry at just how bad things are .. just like the Rancher's Rights at Malheur.

Amok may be just what voters are about to be. It isn't populism, exactly .. its just plain mad and may have surprising "uprisings" as a result.

-- Owen

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Aw, Glen. You are probably right, as usual. Another great and beautiful theory crushed by ugly little facts. And as a behaviorist, what am I doing trotting out a "propensity" theory, anyway?

Still, there was something about reading those cultural descriptions of "amuck" that seemed to set these things in a new context.

N

gepr

Re: Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you mean the Quail Run golf course, there ... in the desert? 8^) If so, I can't imagine any 2 people in that changing room there, have it so "bad". I feel kinda the same way about the ... [cough] ... militia members at Malheur. How bad can it be if these Yeehawdists have plenty of free time and $$ for gas, guns, and such to seize and squat? I know some people who have it "bad" and they certainly don't have that level of resources available to them. It reminds me of the Tea Party people, <stereotype> overweight with their lawn furniture and misspelled signs</stereotype>. What, precisely, do these people have to complain about?

But that makes the issue decidely _on_ topic, I think. From the DSM 5, which doesn't seem to contain "amok":

> 1. Cultural syndrome is a cluster or group of co-occurring, relatively invariant symptoms
> found in a specific cultural group, community, or context (e.g., ataque de nervios). The
> syndrome may or may not be recognized as an illness within the culture (e.g., it might
> be labeled in various ways), but such cultural patterns of distress and features of illness
> may nevertheless be recognizable by an outside observer.
>
> 2. Cultural idiom of distress is a linguistic term, phrase, or way of talking about suffering
> among individuals of a cultural group (e.g., similar ethnicity and religion) referring to
> shared concepts of pathology and ways of expressing, communicating, or naming es
> sential features of distress (e.g., kufiingisisa). An idiom of distress need not be associated
> with specific symptoms, syndromes, or perceived causes. It may be used to convey a
> wide range of discomfort, including everyday experiences, subclinical conditions, or
> suffering due to social circumstances rather than mental disorders. For example, most
> cultures have common bodily idioms of distress used to express a wide range of suf
> fering and concerns.
>
> 3. Cultural explanation or perceived cause is a label, attribution, or feature of an explanatory
> model that provides a culturally conceived etiology or cause for symptoms, illness, or
> distress (e.g., maladi moun). Causal explanations may be salient features of folk classi
> fications of disease used by laypersons or healers.

On 01/04/2016 10:23 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:

> Slightly off-topic, but the mention of Malheur reminded me of a conversation in the men's changing room yesterday at Quail Run.
>
> The Big Short started the discussion, and one guy said ".. but you can't trust anybody anymore, and the government is worst of all! Why aren't most of the bankers who caused the Financial Crisis in jail?".
>
> This prompted another guy to say: "the only honest guys running for president are Trump and Sanders". Trump? Then "Hillary is in the banks pockets just like the rest."
>
> Well, true .. and why *aren't* the bankers in big trouble rather than continuing to be too big to fail and building even more risky financial stunts? As far as I know, only one banker is in jail and it is in Europe, not the US.
>
> And these weren't idiots, just folks angry at just how bad things are .. just like the Rancher's Rights at Malheur.
>
> Amok may be just what voters are about to be. It isn't populism, exactly .. its just plain mad and may have surprising "uprisings" as a result.

uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

Nick Thompson

Re: Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Really, Glen. NOT in the DSM-IV or V? Did you try "amuck". That seems to be the culturally appropriate spelling for Malaysia, anyway. It would be nice not to be wrong about everything.

n

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 12:37 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you mean the Quail Run golf course, there ... in the desert? 8^) If so, I can't imagine any 2 people in that changing room there, have it so "bad". I feel kinda the same way about the ... [cough] ... militia members at Malheur. How bad can it be if these Yeehawdists have plenty of free time and $$ for gas, guns, and such to seize and squat? I know some people who have it "bad" and they certainly don't have that level of resources available to them. It reminds me of the Tea Party people, <stereotype> overweight with their lawn furniture and misspelled signs</stereotype>. What, precisely, do these people have to complain about?

But that makes the issue decidely _on_ topic, I think. From the DSM 5, which doesn't seem to contain "amok":

> 1. Cultural syndrome is a cluster or group of co-occurring, relatively
> invariant symptoms found in a specific cultural group, community, or
> context (e.g., ataque de nervios). The syndrome may or may not be
> recognized as an illness within the culture (e.g., it might be labeled
> in various ways), but such cultural patterns of distress and features of illness may nevertheless be recognizable by an outside observer.
>
> 2. Cultural idiom of distress is a linguistic term, phrase, or way of
> talking about suffering among individuals of a cultural group (e.g.,
> similar ethnicity and religion) referring to shared concepts of
> pathology and ways of expressing, communicating, or naming es sential
> features of distress (e.g., kufiingisisa). An idiom of distress need
> not be associated with specific symptoms, syndromes, or perceived
> causes. It may be used to convey a wide range of discomfort, including
> everyday experiences, subclinical conditions, or suffering due to
> social circumstances rather than mental disorders. For example, most cultures have common bodily idioms of distress used to express a wide range of suf fering and concerns.
>
> 3. Cultural explanation or perceived cause is a label, attribution, or
> feature of an explanatory model that provides a culturally conceived
> etiology or cause for symptoms, illness, or distress (e.g., maladi
> moun). Causal explanations may be salient features of folk classi fications of disease used by laypersons or healers.

On 01/04/2016 10:23 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:

--
⇔ glen

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gepr

Re: Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, it's in DSM-IV, just not 5, as far as I can tell.

On 01/04/2016 12:10 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> Really, Glen. NOT in the DSM-IV or V? Did you try "amuck". That seems to be the culturally appropriate spelling for Malaysia, anyway. It would be nice not to be wrong about everything.

--
⇔ glen

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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

gepr

Re: Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just for posterity, here's the DSM-IV entry for amok:

> A dissociative episode characterized by a period of brooding followed by an outburst of violent, aggressive, or homicidal behavior directed at people and objects. The episode tends to be precipitated by a perceived slight or insult and seems to be prevalent only among males. The episode is often accompanied by persecutory ideas, automatism, amnesia, exhaustion, and a return to premorbid state following the episode. Some instances of amok may occur during a brief psychotic episode or constitute the onset or an exacerbation of a chronic psychotic process. The original reports that used this term were from Malaysia. A similar behavior pattern is found in Laos, Philippines, Polynesia (cafard or cathard), Papua New Guinea, and Puerto Rico (mal de pelea), and among the Navajo (iich’aa).

-- scanned by the Text Fairy https://github.com/renard314/textfairy

On 01/04/2016 12:26 PM, glen wrote:
>
> Yes, it's in DSM-IV, just not 5, as far as I can tell.
>
> On 01/04/2016 12:10 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>> Really, Glen. NOT in the DSM-IV or V? Did you try "amuck". That seems to be the culturally appropriate spelling for Malaysia, anyway. It would be nice not to be wrong about everything.
>

--
⇔ glen

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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

Gillian Densmore

Re: Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's a better Q-

Anyone care to speculate how much reports of people "going postal" these days is because of some rescource or need not getting met?

Basically it seems as if there's a bit of a surge in people that are full of Zeal and Gall- that are infurated some need or want isn't met.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 11:30 AM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just for posterity, here's the DSM-IV entry for amok:

A dissociative episode characterized by a period of brooding followed by an outburst of violent, aggressive, or homicidal behavior directed at people and objects. The episode tends to be precipitated by a perceived slight or insult and seems to be prevalent only among males. The episode is often accompanied by persecutory ideas, automatism, amnesia, exhaustion, and a return to premorbid state following the episode. Some instances of amok may occur during a brief psychotic episode or constitute the onset or an exacerbation of a chronic psychotic process. The original reports that used this term were from Malaysia. A similar behavior pattern is found in Laos, Philippines, Polynesia (cafard or cathard), Papua New Guinea, and Puerto Rico (mal de pelea), and among the Navajo (iich’aa).

-- scanned by the Text Fairy https://github.com/renard314/textfairy

On 01/04/2016 12:26 PM, glen wrote:

Yes, it's in DSM-IV, just not 5, as far as I can tell.

On 01/04/2016 12:10 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:

Really, Glen. NOT in the DSM-IV or V? Did you try "amuck". That seems to be the culturally appropriate spelling for Malaysia, anyway. It would be nice not to be wrong about everything.

--
⇔ glen

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Nick Thompson

Re: Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gill,

There lots of people who live in penury of various sorts without becoming violent. And lots of well-fed people who act violently out of a sense of deprivation. An unmet need, by itself, does not lead to violence unless a NORMATIVE element gets added. “I should have what I need.” That normative element is, in my mind, what connects the lone wolf with mob violence.

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gillian Densmore
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:54 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Running amok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's a better Q-

Anyone care to speculate how much reports of people "going postal" these days is because of some rescource or need not getting met?

Basically it seems as if there's a bit of a surge in people that are full of Zeal and Gall- that are infurated some need or want isn't met.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 11:30 AM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just for posterity, here's the DSM-IV entry for amok:
A dissociative episode characterized by a period of brooding followed by an outburst of violent, aggressive, or homicidal behavior directed at people and objects. The episode tends to be precipitated by a perceived slight or insult and seems to be prevalent only among males. The episode is often accompanied by persecutory ideas, automatism, amnesia, exhaustion, and a return to premorbid state following the episode. Some instances of amok may occur during a brief psychotic episode or constitute the onset or an exacerbation of a chronic psychotic process. The original reports that used this term were from Malaysia. A similar behavior pattern is found in Laos, Philippines, Polynesia (cafard or cathard), Papua New Guinea, and Puerto Rico (mal de pelea), and among the Navajo (iich’aa).

-- scanned by the Text Fairy https://github.com/renard314/textfairy

On 01/04/2016 12:26 PM, glen wrote:

Yes, it's in DSM-IV, just not 5, as far as I can tell.

On 01/04/2016 12:10 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
Really, Glen. NOT in the DSM-IV or V? Did you try "amuck". That seems to be the culturally appropriate spelling for Malaysia, anyway. It would be nice not to be wrong about everything.

--
⇔ glen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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