Rossi mini reactor 2.5 mo. at 10 kW gives 18 MWh using up 100 gm Ni and 2 gm H, Sven Kullander interview 2011.04.06: Rich Murray 2011.04.07

[Rich Murray-2]

Rossi mini reactor 2.5 mo. at 10 kW gives 18 MWh using up 100 gm Ni
and 2 gm H, Sven Kullander interview 2011.04.06: Rich Murray
2011.04.07

"Kullander: The powder has reportedly been used for 2.5 months
continuously with an output of 10 kW (according to Rossi). It
corresponds to a total energy of 18 MWh, with a consumption of up to
100 grams of nickel and two grams of hydrogen. If the production had
been done with oil, two tons of oil would have been required.

Ny Teknik: What analyses have you done on the powders?

Kullander: Element analysis and isotopic analysis. At the Ångström
Laboratory in Uppsala, Sweden, element analysis has been made using
X-ray Fluorescence (XRFS). Dr. Erik Lindahl undertook the
investigation. At the Biomedical Center in Uppsala, both element
analysis and isotope analysis has been done through Inductively
Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry (ICP-MS). Associate Professor Jean
Pettersson has made the measurement.

Ny Teknik: What results have you obtained from the analyses?

Kullander: Both measurements show that the pure nickel powder contains
mainly nickel, and the used powder is different in that several
elements are present, mainly 10 percent copper and 11 percent iron.
The isotopic analysis through ICP-MS doesn’t show any deviation from
the natural isotopic composition of nickel and copper."

http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3144827.ece

Swedish physicists on the E-cat:
“It’s a nuclear reaction”
Av: Mats Lewan
Publicerad 6 april 2011 07:30  10 kommentarer

In a detailed report, two Swedish physicists exclude chemical
reactions as the energy source in the Italian ‘energy catalyzer’. The
two physicists recently supervised a new test of the device in
Bologna, Italy.

(Click on the images). Three E-cats without insulation and one
insulated. Text in blue indicates hydrogen inlet, main heater,
auxiliary heater and water inlet. Foto: Giuseppe Levi

Close view of the main resistor surrounding the copper tube, which in
turn surrounds the steel reactor. Foto: Giuseppe Levi

Vertical part of the E-cat with outlet for hot water through a black
rubber hose. The insulation and the lead shielding can also be seen in
the picture. Foto: Giuseppe Levi

Temperature of the hot water at the outlet. At 60 degrees centigrade
the temperature increase is escalated, although the electric power fed
to to the device is constant. Foto: Giuseppe Levi

And here are 36 more questions – with Rossi's answers
E-cat inventor in live chat with the readers
This is how Rossi is financing his E-cat
Cold Fusion: “You have to embrace this”
Cold Fusion: 18 hour test excludes combustion
Cold fusion may provide one megawatt in Athens
Cold Fusion: Here's the Greek company building 1 MW
Cold fusion: Observing researcher wants more tests
Kall fusion – nu ska den vara klar för produktion

Download the report by Kullander and Essén (pdf).

Cold FusionE-catEnglishFusionKall fusionLENR

Tipsa
Skriv ut
Större text

(Swedish version here, Italian translation here).

“In some way a new kind of physics is taking place. It’s enigmatic,
but probably no new laws of nature are involved. We believe it is
possible to explain the process with known laws of nature,” said Hanno
Essén, associate professor of theoretical physics and a lecturer at
the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology and chairman member of the
board (chairman until April 2) of the Swedish Skeptics Society.

Essén and Professor Emeritus at Uppsala University Sven Kullander,
also chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences’ Energy
Committee, both participated on 29 March as observers at a new trial
in Bologna of the so-called ‘energy catalyzer’, which could be based
on cold fusion, or LENR, Low Energy Nuclear Reaction.

Participants included the inventor of the device, Andrea Rossi, his
scientific advisor Professor Sergio Focardi, and physicists Dr. David
Bianchini and Dr. Giuseppe Levi from Bologna University who both
supervised the first public demonstration of the E-cat on 14 January
2011 in Bologna, Italy.

The new trial was conducted in much the same way as the trial in
January, and lasted for nearly six hours. According to observations by
Kullander and Essén, a total energy of about 25 kWh was generated.

In a detailed report (download here), they write:

“Any chemical process should be ruled out for producing 25 kWh from
whatever is in a 50 cubic centimeter container. The only alternative
explanation is that there is some kind of a nuclear process that gives
rise to the measured energy production.”

The power output was estimated to about 4.4 kW. It’s barely half the
power compared with the two previous documented experiments in January
and February 2011, because the trial was made with a new and smaller
version of the energy catalyzer.

The new trial was the first officially documented with the smaller
version which, according to Rossi, is more stable.

“With the smaller version we avoid the power peaks that occurred at
ignition and switching off,” Andrea Rossi told Ny Teknik.

He also stated that the smaller version will be used for the planned
installation of about one megawatt for the pilot customer Defkalion
Green Technologies in Greece.

According to Rossi, a total of 300 reactors connected in series and
parallel, will be used in the installation. Originally 100 reactors of
the version that delivered 10 kW of power during earlier trials, were
supposedly planned for the one-megawatt installation. Rossi still
expects the inauguration to take place in October 2011.

At the trial in Bologna, Kullander and Essén could investigate the
energy catalyzer with the surrounding insulation and the lead
shielding stripped away. The exterior design is described in their
report.

The reactor itself, which is loaded with the nickel powder and secret
catalysts pressurized with hydrogen, has an estimated volume of 50
cubic centimeters (3.2 cubic inches). The reactor is made of stainless
steel.

A copper tube surrounds the steel reactor. The water to be heated
flows between the steel and the copper. In operation, the construction
is also surrounded by insulation and a lead shielding with a thickness
of approximately two centimeters (0.8 inches).

Before starting, Kullander and Essén calibrated the water flow and
estimated it at 6.5 kg per hour. The power required to heat the
flowing water from 18 degrees and convert it completely into steam was
calculated to 4.7 kW.

They also filled the reactor with hydrogen at a pressure of about 25
bars. The reactor was according to Rossi loaded with 50 grams of
nickel powder.

As in previous trials the process was ‘ignited’ with an electrical
resistance. Input power was 330 watts, of which about 30 watts were
required to operate the electronics.

A phenomenon that Kullander and Essén noted was that the curve for the
water temperature at the output showed a steady increase up to about
60 degrees centigrade, after which the increase escalated.

“The curve then became steeper, it clearly had a new derivative. At
the same time there was no increase in power consumption, it rather
decreased when it got warmer,” said Essén.

In their report they note that it took nine minutes to go from 20 to
60 degrees centigrade, which corresponds to the heating from the input
electrical power. Going from 60 to 97.5 degrees centigrade, by
contrast, just took four minutes.

Throughout the experiment Kullander and Essén had the opportunity to
examine the equipment.

“We checked everything that could be checked, and we could walk around
freely and have a look at most of the equipment,” said Essén.

“We looked specifically into the big control unit (with electronics)
and it contains mostly rectifiers and passive components – there was
nothing of interest in it,” said Kullander, which is in line of what
Dr. Levi previously noted.

Kullander and Essén had their first contact with Rossi in mid
February, at the time of a discussion of the physics in the energy
catalyzer, organized by Ny Teknik. After getting answers from Rossi to
several questions, they expressed a cautiously optimistic opinion
about the technology.

At a first meeting with Rossi at the end of February they were given
access to a sample of the pure nickel powder, intended for use in the
energy catalyzer, and another sample of nickel powder which, according
to Rossi, had been used in the reactor for 2.5 months.

Their analyses showed that the pure powder consists of essentially
pure nickel, while the used powder contains several other substances,
mainly 10 percent copper and 11 percent iron.

“Provided that copper is not one of the additives used as catalyst,
the copper isotopes 63 and 65 can only have been formed during the
process. Their presence is therefore a proof that nuclear reactions
took place in the process,” Kullander said (see further details
below).

The meeting in February in turn led to their involvement in the new
trial in Bologna.

“My belief that there is an energy development far beyond what one
would expect has been strengthened significantly as I have had the
opportunity to see the process for myself and perform measurements,”
said Kullander.

“Everything that we’ve found so far fits together. There is nothing
that seems to be strange. All people seem to be honest and competent,”
Essén added.

In line of what they expressed during the discussion in February, they
believe that the physics of the energy catalyzer may possibly be
explained by a combination of atomic, molecular, nuclear and plasma
physics. At the same time they are skeptical of detailed and
hypothetical theories suggested at this stage, and stressed instead
the need for more data.

They describe that Focardi and Levi have the same approach, and
support their viewpoint.

Focardi, who has been working with Rossi during the development of the
energy catalyzer, is Emeritus Professor at the University of Bologna,
while Levi will now be responsible for researching the energy
catalyzer at the Physics Department of Bologna University,
commissioned by Rossi, who pays 500,000 Euro according to an agreement
between his company Leonardo Corporation and the university.

Kullander and Essén are not involved in this project.

During their visit to Bologna they met with the Rector of the Bologna
University, Professor Ivano Dionigi, and had a discussion with him,
Rossi, Focardi, Levi and Bianchini on the project. According to
Kullander and Levi, future collaborative research is possible.

- - - -

The used powder contains ten percent copper
Analyses of the nickel powder used in Rossi’s energy catalyzer show
that a large amount of copper is formed. Sven Kullander considers this
to be evidence of a nuclear reaction.

For copper to be formed out of nickel, the nucleus of nickel has to
capture a proton. The fact that this possibly occurs in Rossi’s
reactor is why the concept of cold fusion has been mentioned – it
would consist of fusion between nuclei of nickel and hydrogen.

A term that many consider to be more accurate, however, is LENR, Low
Energy Nuclear Reaction.

Ny Teknik: For how long has the powder supposedly been used in the process?

Kullander: The powder has reportedly been used for 2.5 months
continuously with an output of 10 kW (according to Rossi). It
corresponds to a total energy of 18 MWh, with a consumption of up to
100 grams of nickel and two grams of hydrogen. If the production had
been done with oil, two tons of oil would have been required.

Ny Teknik: What analyses have you done on the powders?

Kullander: Element analysis and isotopic analysis. At the Ångström
Laboratory in Uppsala, Sweden, element analysis has been made using
X-ray Fluorescence (XRFS). Dr. Erik Lindahl undertook the
investigation. At the Biomedical Center in Uppsala, both element
analysis and isotope analysis has been done through Inductively
Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry (ICP-MS). Associate Professor Jean
Pettersson has made the measurement.

Ny Teknik: What results have you obtained from the analyses?

Kullander: Both measurements show that the pure nickel powder contains
mainly nickel, and the used powder is different in that several
elements are present, mainly 10 percent copper and 11 percent iron.
The isotopic analysis through ICP-MS doesn’t show any deviation from
the natural isotopic composition of nickel and copper.

Ny Teknik: How do you interpret the results?

Kullander: Provided that copper is not one of the additives used as
catalyst, the copper isotopes 63 and 65 can only have been formed
during the process. Their presence is therefore a proof that nuclear
reactions took place in the process. However, it’s remarkable that
nickel-58 and hydrogen can form copper-63 (70%) and copper-65 (30%).
This means that in the process, the original nickel-58 should have
grown by five and seven atomic mass-units, respectively, during the
nuclear transmutation. However, there are two stable isotopes of
nickel with low concentration, nickel-62 and nickel-64, which could
conceivably contribute to copper production. According to Rossi copper
is not among the additives. 100 grams of nickel had been used during
2.5 months of continuous heating with 10 kW output power. A
straightforward calculation shows that a large proportion of the
nickel must have been consumed if it was ‘burned’ in a nuclear
process. It’s then somewhat strange that the isotopic composition
doesn’t differ from the natural.

Ny Teknik: What further analyses are you planning?

Kullander: We have not planned anything definite. If it’s possible to
refine the isotopic measurements, further isotopic measurements would
be important mainly to get a better accuracy in the field of 60 to 65
atomic mass units. We have also discussed with Rossi installing an
energy catalyzer at a laboratory in Uppsala to perform more detailed
measurements. These could be part of a scientific collaboration with
the Bologna University.

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Owen Densmore]

Sorry if this is a repeat question .. I've been skimming mail lately due to homework!

So the question is: Has anyone reproduced the experiment/device?  I realize Rossi is applying for a patent and is therefore somewhat protective, but U of Bologna is quite respectable, the oldest university in europe.

So UofB must be interested in protecting their reputation .. thus would like a duplicate made by independent researchers under some sort of protective agreement.

        -- Owen

On Apr 7, 2011, at 11:30 PM, Rich Murray wrote:

> Rossi mini reactor 2.5 mo. at 10 kW gives 18 MWh using up 100 gm Ni
> and 2 gm H, Sven Kullander interview 2011.04.06: Rich Murray
> 2011.04.07
>
> "Kullander: The powder has reportedly been used for 2.5 months
> continuously with an output of 10 kW (according to Rossi). It
> corresponds to a total energy of 18 MWh, with a consumption of up to
> 100 grams of nickel and two grams of hydrogen. If the production had
> been done with oil, two tons of oil would have been required.
>
> Ny Teknik: What analyses have you done on the powders?
>
> Kullander: Element analysis and isotopic analysis. At the Ångström
> Laboratory in Uppsala, Sweden, element analysis has been made using
> X-ray Fluorescence (XRFS). Dr. Erik Lindahl undertook the
> investigation. At the Biomedical Center in Uppsala, both element
> analysis and isotope analysis has been done through Inductively
> Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry (ICP-MS). Associate Professor Jean
> Pettersson has made the measurement.
>
> Ny Teknik: What results have you obtained from the analyses?
>
> Kullander: Both measurements show that the pure nickel powder contains
> mainly nickel, and the used powder is different in that several
> elements are present, mainly 10 percent copper and 11 percent iron.
> The isotopic analysis through ICP-MS doesn’t show any deviation from
> the natural isotopic composition of nickel and copper."
>
> http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3144827.ece
>
> Swedish physicists on the E-cat:
> “It’s a nuclear reaction”
> Av: Mats Lewan
> Publicerad 6 april 2011 07:30  10 kommentarer
>
> In a detailed report, two Swedish physicists exclude chemical
> reactions as the energy source in the Italian ‘energy catalyzer’. The
> two physicists recently supervised a new test of the device in
> Bologna, Italy.
>
> (Click on the images). Three E-cats without insulation and one
> insulated. Text in blue indicates hydrogen inlet, main heater,
> auxiliary heater and water inlet. Foto: Giuseppe Levi
>
> Close view of the main resistor surrounding the copper tube, which in
> turn surrounds the steel reactor. Foto: Giuseppe Levi
>
> Vertical part of the E-cat with outlet for hot water through a black
> rubber hose. The insulation and the lead shielding can also be seen in
> the picture. Foto: Giuseppe Levi
>
> Temperature of the hot water at the outlet. At 60 degrees centigrade
> the temperature increase is escalated, although the electric power fed
> to to the device is constant. Foto: Giuseppe Levi
>
> And here are 36 more questions – with Rossi's answers
> E-cat inventor in live chat with the readers
> This is how Rossi is financing his E-cat
> Cold Fusion: “You have to embrace this”
> Cold Fusion: 18 hour test excludes combustion
> Cold fusion may provide one megawatt in Athens
> Cold Fusion: Here's the Greek company building 1 MW
> Cold fusion: Observing researcher wants more tests
> Kall fusion – nu ska den vara klar för produktion
>
> Download the report by Kullander and Essén (pdf).
>
> Cold FusionE-catEnglishFusionKall fusionLENR
>
> Tipsa
> Skriv ut
> Större text
>
> (Swedish version here, Italian translation here).
>
> “In some way a new kind of physics is taking place. It’s enigmatic,
> but probably no new laws of nature are involved. We believe it is
> possible to explain the process with known laws of nature,” said Hanno
> Essén, associate professor of theoretical physics and a lecturer at
> the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology and chairman member of the
> board (chairman until April 2) of the Swedish Skeptics Society.
>
> Essén and Professor Emeritus at Uppsala University Sven Kullander,
> also chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences’ Energy
> Committee, both participated on 29 March as observers at a new trial
> in Bologna of the so-called ‘energy catalyzer’, which could be based
> on cold fusion, or LENR, Low Energy Nuclear Reaction.
>
> Participants included the inventor of the device, Andrea Rossi, his
> scientific advisor Professor Sergio Focardi, and physicists Dr. David
> Bianchini and Dr. Giuseppe Levi from Bologna University who both
> supervised the first public demonstration of the E-cat on 14 January
> 2011 in Bologna, Italy.
>
> The new trial was conducted in much the same way as the trial in
> January, and lasted for nearly six hours. According to observations by
> Kullander and Essén, a total energy of about 25 kWh was generated.
>
> In a detailed report (download here), they write:
>
> “Any chemical process should be ruled out for producing 25 kWh from
> whatever is in a 50 cubic centimeter container. The only alternative
> explanation is that there is some kind of a nuclear process that gives
> rise to the measured energy production.”
>
> The power output was estimated to about 4.4 kW. It’s barely half the
> power compared with the two previous documented experiments in January
> and February 2011, because the trial was made with a new and smaller
> version of the energy catalyzer.
>
> The new trial was the first officially documented with the smaller
> version which, according to Rossi, is more stable.
>
> “With the smaller version we avoid the power peaks that occurred at
> ignition and switching off,” Andrea Rossi told Ny Teknik.
>
> He also stated that the smaller version will be used for the planned
> installation of about one megawatt for the pilot customer Defkalion
> Green Technologies in Greece.
>
> According to Rossi, a total of 300 reactors connected in series and
> parallel, will be used in the installation. Originally 100 reactors of
> the version that delivered 10 kW of power during earlier trials, were
> supposedly planned for the one-megawatt installation. Rossi still
> expects the inauguration to take place in October 2011.
>
> At the trial in Bologna, Kullander and Essén could investigate the
> energy catalyzer with the surrounding insulation and the lead
> shielding stripped away. The exterior design is described in their
> report.
>
> The reactor itself, which is loaded with the nickel powder and secret
> catalysts pressurized with hydrogen, has an estimated volume of 50
> cubic centimeters (3.2 cubic inches). The reactor is made of stainless
> steel.
>
> A copper tube surrounds the steel reactor. The water to be heated
> flows between the steel and the copper. In operation, the construction
> is also surrounded by insulation and a lead shielding with a thickness
> of approximately two centimeters (0.8 inches).
>
> Before starting, Kullander and Essén calibrated the water flow and
> estimated it at 6.5 kg per hour. The power required to heat the
> flowing water from 18 degrees and convert it completely into steam was
> calculated to 4.7 kW.
>
> They also filled the reactor with hydrogen at a pressure of about 25
> bars. The reactor was according to Rossi loaded with 50 grams of
> nickel powder.
>
> As in previous trials the process was ‘ignited’ with an electrical
> resistance. Input power was 330 watts, of which about 30 watts were
> required to operate the electronics.
>
> A phenomenon that Kullander and Essén noted was that the curve for the
> water temperature at the output showed a steady increase up to about
> 60 degrees centigrade, after which the increase escalated.
>
> “The curve then became steeper, it clearly had a new derivative. At
> the same time there was no increase in power consumption, it rather
> decreased when it got warmer,” said Essén.
>
> In their report they note that it took nine minutes to go from 20 to
> 60 degrees centigrade, which corresponds to the heating from the input
> electrical power. Going from 60 to 97.5 degrees centigrade, by
> contrast, just took four minutes.
>
> Throughout the experiment Kullander and Essén had the opportunity to
> examine the equipment.
>
> “We checked everything that could be checked, and we could walk around
> freely and have a look at most of the equipment,” said Essén.
>
> “We looked specifically into the big control unit (with electronics)
> and it contains mostly rectifiers and passive components – there was
> nothing of interest in it,” said Kullander, which is in line of what
> Dr. Levi previously noted.
>
> Kullander and Essén had their first contact with Rossi in mid
> February, at the time of a discussion of the physics in the energy
> catalyzer, organized by Ny Teknik. After getting answers from Rossi to
> several questions, they expressed a cautiously optimistic opinion
> about the technology.
>
> At a first meeting with Rossi at the end of February they were given
> access to a sample of the pure nickel powder, intended for use in the
> energy catalyzer, and another sample of nickel powder which, according
> to Rossi, had been used in the reactor for 2.5 months.
>
> Their analyses showed that the pure powder consists of essentially
> pure nickel, while the used powder contains several other substances,
> mainly 10 percent copper and 11 percent iron.
>
> “Provided that copper is not one of the additives used as catalyst,
> the copper isotopes 63 and 65 can only have been formed during the
> process. Their presence is therefore a proof that nuclear reactions
> took place in the process,” Kullander said (see further details
> below).
>
> The meeting in February in turn led to their involvement in the new
> trial in Bologna.
>
> “My belief that there is an energy development far beyond what one
> would expect has been strengthened significantly as I have had the
> opportunity to see the process for myself and perform measurements,”
> said Kullander.
>
> “Everything that we’ve found so far fits together. There is nothing
> that seems to be strange. All people seem to be honest and competent,”
> Essén added.
>
> In line of what they expressed during the discussion in February, they
> believe that the physics of the energy catalyzer may possibly be
> explained by a combination of atomic, molecular, nuclear and plasma
> physics. At the same time they are skeptical of detailed and
> hypothetical theories suggested at this stage, and stressed instead
> the need for more data.
>
> They describe that Focardi and Levi have the same approach, and
> support their viewpoint.
>
> Focardi, who has been working with Rossi during the development of the
> energy catalyzer, is Emeritus Professor at the University of Bologna,
> while Levi will now be responsible for researching the energy
> catalyzer at the Physics Department of Bologna University,
> commissioned by Rossi, who pays 500,000 Euro according to an agreement
> between his company Leonardo Corporation and the university.
>
> Kullander and Essén are not involved in this project.
>
> During their visit to Bologna they met with the Rector of the Bologna
> University, Professor Ivano Dionigi, and had a discussion with him,
> Rossi, Focardi, Levi and Bianchini on the project. According to
> Kullander and Levi, future collaborative research is possible.
>
> - - - -
>
> The used powder contains ten percent copper
> Analyses of the nickel powder used in Rossi’s energy catalyzer show
> that a large amount of copper is formed. Sven Kullander considers this
> to be evidence of a nuclear reaction.
>
> For copper to be formed out of nickel, the nucleus of nickel has to
> capture a proton. The fact that this possibly occurs in Rossi’s
> reactor is why the concept of cold fusion has been mentioned – it
> would consist of fusion between nuclei of nickel and hydrogen.
>
> A term that many consider to be more accurate, however, is LENR, Low
> Energy Nuclear Reaction.
>
> Ny Teknik: For how long has the powder supposedly been used in the process?
>
> Kullander: The powder has reportedly been used for 2.5 months
> continuously with an output of 10 kW (according to Rossi). It
> corresponds to a total energy of 18 MWh, with a consumption of up to
> 100 grams of nickel and two grams of hydrogen. If the production had
> been done with oil, two tons of oil would have been required.
>
> Ny Teknik: What analyses have you done on the powders?
>
> Kullander: Element analysis and isotopic analysis. At the Ångström
> Laboratory in Uppsala, Sweden, element analysis has been made using
> X-ray Fluorescence (XRFS). Dr. Erik Lindahl undertook the
> investigation. At the Biomedical Center in Uppsala, both element
> analysis and isotope analysis has been done through Inductively
> Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry (ICP-MS). Associate Professor Jean
> Pettersson has made the measurement.
>
> Ny Teknik: What results have you obtained from the analyses?
>
> Kullander: Both measurements show that the pure nickel powder contains
> mainly nickel, and the used powder is different in that several
> elements are present, mainly 10 percent copper and 11 percent iron.
> The isotopic analysis through ICP-MS doesn’t show any deviation from
> the natural isotopic composition of nickel and copper.
>
> Ny Teknik: How do you interpret the results?
>
> Kullander: Provided that copper is not one of the additives used as
> catalyst, the copper isotopes 63 and 65 can only have been formed
> during the process. Their presence is therefore a proof that nuclear
> reactions took place in the process. However, it’s remarkable that
> nickel-58 and hydrogen can form copper-63 (70%) and copper-65 (30%).
> This means that in the process, the original nickel-58 should have
> grown by five and seven atomic mass-units, respectively, during the
> nuclear transmutation. However, there are two stable isotopes of
> nickel with low concentration, nickel-62 and nickel-64, which could
> conceivably contribute to copper production. According to Rossi copper
> is not among the additives. 100 grams of nickel had been used during
> 2.5 months of continuous heating with 10 kW output power. A
> straightforward calculation shows that a large proportion of the
> nickel must have been consumed if it was ‘burned’ in a nuclear
> process. It’s then somewhat strange that the isotopic composition
> doesn’t differ from the natural.
>
> Ny Teknik: What further analyses are you planning?
>
> Kullander: We have not planned anything definite. If it’s possible to
> refine the isotopic measurements, further isotopic measurements would
> be important mainly to get a better accuracy in the field of 60 to 65
> atomic mass units. We have also discussed with Rossi installing an
> energy catalyzer at a laboratory in Uppsala to perform more detailed
> measurements. These could be part of a scientific collaboration with
> the Bologna University.
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Gary Schiltz-4]

I don't know if the device is real or not, but I can't find any way of attributing good motives to these guys: if they are simply trying to put one over on the world for fame and fortune, they shame on them (and on us for falling for it). If they truly have produced cold fusion, then witholding details of a technology with such far-reaching positive implications, in order to increase their economic gains, is also reprehensible. But then, my money is on the former.

;; Gary

On Apr 8, 2011, at 12:16 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

> Sorry if this is a repeat question .. I've been skimming mail lately due to homework!
>
> So the question is: Has anyone reproduced the experiment/device?  I realize Rossi is applying for a patent and is therefore somewhat protective, but U of Bologna is quite respectable, the oldest university in europe.
>
> So UofB must be interested in protecting their reputation .. thus would like a duplicate made by independent researchers under some sort of protective agreement.
>
> -- Owen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Eric Charles]

Gary,
Given our last major thread on this list, I am skeptical about even the possible benefits (mostly out of ignorance). My understanding is that compressed Hydrogen is awfully easy to get, and doesn't take much energy to produce. Can anyone on the list estimate how much energy is needed to mine, purify, and process 100 grams of nickel? Does anyone know how much waste is produced?

The Rossi-mini report says that the amount of energy produced by the 100 grams of nickel is equivalent to what can be generated by two tons of oil. An impressive number on first pass, but one that might not stand up to much scrutiny. For example, if you were talking two tons of unrefined oil, the power produced is not nearly as much as two tons of refined gasoline. 

As for the Nickel: One report I found suggested that much nickel is currently recovered from waste produced by mining other substances (one Indian company is recovering nickle from the 240 MILLION tons of waste produced from mining chromite). Presumably if the value of nickel increased, that waste would be produced initially for the purpose of getting the nickel. Another report by the IFC notes that nickle smelting and refining produces gases including large amounts of sulfer dioxide, some ammonia and hydrogen sulfide, and "highly toxic" nickel carbonyl. Resulting waste water can have high levels of antimony, arsenic, and/or mercury. There is also a large amount of "dense silicate slag," which I think just means "rocks." In addition to all the obvious pollutants, there is a simple question of the amount of power it takes to get the ore, break it up, melt out the nickel, chemically purify it, mechanically manipulate it, and transport it. It seems to me at least possible that the amount of energy it takes to get the nickel and clean up the mess is more than the amount of energy reported as produced.

Of course, I don't know much about the messy details of this stuff, and it either is or is not a net positive.

How much nickel 100 grams of nickel? Quick research suggests that each US nickel weighs 5 grams, and has 1.25 grams of nickel. So you can think of it as 20 nickels in terms of weight, or as much nickel as there is in 80 nickels (i.e., its not much).  That said, I have no clue how much ore it takes to produce that much nickel, and there are economies of scale involved.

That's more than I intended to write (or research), but I just thought it was worth thinking this through in light of our last major thread.

Eric


On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 01:39 PM, Gary Schiltz <[hidden email]> wrote:

I don't know if the device is real or not, but I can't find any way
of
attributing good motives to these guys: if they are simply trying to put
one
over on the world for fame and fortune, they shame on them (and on us
for
falling for it). If they truly have produced cold fusion, then
witholding
details of a technology with such far-reaching positive
implications, in order
to increase their economic gains, is also
reprehensible. But then, my money is
on the former.

;; Gary

On
Apr 8, 2011, at 12:16 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

> Sorry if this is a
repeat question .. I've been skimming mail lately due
to homework!
>

> So the question is: Has anyone reproduced the experiment/device? 
I
realize Rossi is applying for a patent and is therefore somewhat
protective,
but U of Bologna is quite respectable, the oldest university in
europe.
> 
> So UofB must be interested in protecting their
reputation .. thus would
like a duplicate made by independent researchers
under some sort of protective
agreement.
> 
> 	--
Owen

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Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601

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[Sarbajit Roy (testing)]

In my country (India) we use coins (cupro-nickel). A back of the
envelope calculation shows that 100 grms of nickel works out to be
under US$ 5 worth of coins assuming a 70::30 Cu:Ni ratio.
Leave aside the physics, the economics of the Rossi device don't stand
up at current energy prices.

On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Gary Schiltz
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't know if the device is real or not, but I can't find any way of attributing good motives to these guys: if they are simply trying to put one over on the world for fame and fortune, they shame on them (and on us for falling for it). If they truly have produced cold fusion, then witholding details of a technology with such far-reaching positive implications, in order to increase their economic gains, is also reprehensible. But then, my money is on the former.
>
> ;; Gary
>
> On Apr 8, 2011, at 12:16 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
>
>> Sorry if this is a repeat question .. I've been skimming mail lately due to homework!
>>
>> So the question is: Has anyone reproduced the experiment/device?  I realize Rossi is applying for a patent and is therefore somewhat protective, but U of Bologna is quite respectable, the oldest university in europe.
>>
>> So UofB must be interested in protecting their reputation .. thus would like a duplicate made by independent researchers under some sort of protective agreement.
>>
>>       -- Owen
>
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>

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[Rich Murray-2]

Rossi won't reveal how he prepares the Ni nanoparticles or the several
necessary catalysts or any radiations, until he gets a patent
approved, for which the final stage would require full disclosure --
so independent replications are not possible -- I expect that various
world powers will be quickly getting access to the devices and
critical information, for obvious national security reasons -- perhaps
the patent will be rushed through while quiet negotiations guarantee
Rossi that he will get his share and that his discovery will be shared
worldwide -- attempts to replicate will grow quickly exponentially --
he had to scale down the device's operating power down by a factor of
3 to ensure safety, probably from runaway meltdowns -- he has had
explosions in recent years, no details given -- his attractive wife is
a qualified particle physicist who has worked at CERN -- the operating
temperature may be limited to about 600 C to prevent aggregation of
the Ni nanoparticle powder -- I hope people with connections will
alert our government, as well as other capable players with good
intentions.  Rich  505-819-7388

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[Sarbajit Roy (testing)]

Dear Rich

Considering your enthusiasm for Prof. Rossi's LNER device, please
excuse me for asking this question - do you have any formal scientific
/ technical training / qualifications which I can list ?

I am asking this only so as to be able to ask my country's Govt about
their knowledge of Rossi's device, and not because I doubt you in any
way.


On 4/9/11, Rich Murray <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Rossi won't reveal how he prepares the Ni nanoparticles or the several
> necessary catalysts or any radiations, until he gets a patent
> approved, for which the final stage would require full disclosure --
> so independent replications are not possible -- I expect that various
> world powers will be quickly getting access to the devices and
> critical information, for obvious national security reasons -- perhaps
> the patent will be rushed through while quiet negotiations guarantee
> Rossi that he will get his share and that his discovery will be shared
> worldwide -- attempts to replicate will grow quickly exponentially --
> he had to scale down the device's operating power down by a factor of
> 3 to ensure safety, probably from runaway meltdowns -- he has had
> explosions in recent years, no details given -- his attractive wife is
> a qualified particle physicist who has worked at CERN -- the operating
> temperature may be limited to about 600 C to prevent aggregation of
> the Ni nanoparticle powder -- I hope people with connections will
> alert our government, as well as other capable players with good
> intentions.  Rich  505-819-7388
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

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[Rich Murray-2]

Hello Sarbajit,  I got a BS in physics and history at MIT in 1964.
I've kept up with all fields of science, at the level of Scientific
American.  I've never worked at any science or technology, but have
been active on the Net since 1996 as a reasonable pragmatic critic of
cold fusion research, and have summarized mainstream research on
aspartame (methanol, formaldehyde, formic acid) toxicity since 1999 as
a public service on the Net, and with my AstroDeep group have shared
enhanced color images from the Hubble Ultra Deep Field since 2005 as
"rmforall" on Flickr.com, and put up research reviews and my simple
field work re a controversy the last two years on whether a barrage of
ice comet fragments at 13,000 BP made many large animals extinct in
North America.  I retired a few years ago after 20 years in Santa Fe
as a home hospice care giver.  I am primarily an independent mystic,
respecting A Course in Miracles, the Seth books of Jane Roberts, Zen
and Dzogchen teachings, and nonduality teachings from Ramana Maharshi
to Poonjaji to many modern teachers -- see NonDuality Salon.  My
qualifications can be judged only by the reasonableness of my
writings, which always serve to benefit everyone -- creatively
applying the Golden Rule.

In mutual service,  Rich Murray

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Sarbajit Roy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Rich
>
> Considering your enthusiasm for Prof. Rossi's LNER device, please
> excuse me for asking this question - do you have any formal scientific
> / technical training / qualifications which I can list ?
>
> I am asking this only so as to be able to ask my country's Govt about
> their knowledge of Rossi's device, and not because I doubt you in any
> way.
>
>
> On 4/9/11, Rich Murray <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Rossi won't reveal how he prepares the Ni nanoparticles or the several
>> necessary catalysts or any radiations, until he gets a patent
>> approved, for which the final stage would require full disclosure --
>> so independent replications are not possible -- I expect that various
>> world powers will be quickly getting access to the devices and
>> critical information, for obvious national security reasons -- perhaps
>> the patent will be rushed through while quiet negotiations guarantee
>> Rossi that he will get his share and that his discovery will be shared
>> worldwide -- attempts to replicate will grow quickly exponentially --
>> he had to scale down the device's operating power down by a factor of
>> 3 to ensure safety, probably from runaway meltdowns -- he has had
>> explosions in recent years, no details given -- his attractive wife is
>> a qualified particle physicist who has worked at CERN -- the operating
>> temperature may be limited to about 600 C to prevent aggregation of
>> the Ni nanoparticle powder -- I hope people with connections will
>> alert our government, as well as other capable players with good
>> intentions.  Rich  505-819-7388
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>

============================================================
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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