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Re: well we did finance

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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: well we did finance

Phil wrote:
> By 'things', of course I mean physical systems rather than theoretical ones,
> and by 'multiplying' I mean allowing them to operate only if they produce a
> surplus you can use to expand them by %'s.
>
Given the subprime mortgage crisis, I kind of wish that were the case!
Credit worthiness, not consistent surplus, is what keeps families,
companies, and our government running. Investment is commonly done on
credit (in various forms).

Marcus

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Phil Henshaw-2

Re: well we did finance

Marcus,

Thanks for acknowledging that there at least might be some process behind
the buzz words being used in the pop culture discussion of events. The so
called 'sub-prime crisis' is referred to using a stereotype for ancient and
long discredited people and practices. I think it's inadequate as a label
for our whole society's double mass hysterias in switching from perceiving
the potential value of real-estate as near infinite to being near zero.
That's a bigger process than a single stereotype explains. From our present
hind sight the stereotype of a greedy lender fooling a foolish borrower is
so crystal clear, and covered with so much of our own chagrin for it not
having seen it clearly before, it's a wonder no one asks why it wasn't.

What I think would bring the larger process to people's attention is
recognizing who profited from it (who offering the addict their drug) and
then ask why the same people pulled their funds out of risk when the wealth
hysteria they fed seemed in the process of collapse. NOW the same people
want to use those profits to come back into the market and be "white nights"
and buy up all the devalued assets at a bargain. What adds even further to
the irony, of course, is that, not seeing how it was done, the same people
plan on using the same method to just do the same thing all over again the
next time they get a chance, and everyone approves! If offering
opportunity for mischief isn't a direct physical cause in this very one
sided kind of case, then tell me why it's so extremely profitable.

If I can't interest anyone in effective methods for investigating how these
kinds of whole system phenomena operate, and why they run into consequential
physical self-conflict, how about suggesting an appropriate stereotype for
any of the damn fool players in the larger tragedy?

Phil

>
> Phil wrote:
> > By 'things', of course I mean physical systems rather than theoretical
ones,
> > and by 'multiplying' I mean allowing them to operate only if they
produce a

> > surplus you can use to expand them by %'s.
> >
> Given the subprime mortgage crisis, I kind of wish that were the case!
> Credit worthiness, not consistent surplus, is what keeps families,
> companies, and our government running. Investment is commonly done on
> credit (in various forms).
>
> Marcus
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: well we did finance

Phil Henshaw wrote:
> If offering
> opportunity for mischief isn't a direct physical cause in this very one
> sided kind of case, then tell me why it's so extremely profitable.
>
Funny how AIGFP could have been allowed to insure $300 billion in debt
in private, but the whole company (300 times larger than this division)
couldn't manage to post $15 billion collateral on this division's
screwups (which we had to loan them), all while giving the ~400 people
at AIGFP _all_ million dollar salaries. Talk about dumb risk models.
Meanwhile, they've had their credit rating downgraded twice since 2005
before they went crying to the Federal Reserve.

Marcus

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Phil Henshaw-2

Re: well we did finance

Yes, it goes to the 'many world's' feature of social and economic systems.
Each world may be living in what seems to be an entirely different world.
You can see them at a distance, but moving from one to another is
particularly different. Then you get things like the world of the press,
which is largely it's own fabrication of favorite discussion topics that
only describe the subjects we'd be interested like sweat left in the boxing
ring after the fighters are gone.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Marcus G. Daniels
> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 1:24 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] well we did finance
>
> Phil Henshaw wrote:
> > If offering
> > opportunity for mischief isn't a direct physical cause in this very
> one
> > sided kind of case, then tell me why it's so extremely profitable.
> >
> Funny how AIGFP could have been allowed to insure $300 billion in debt
> in private, but the whole company (300 times larger than this division)
> couldn't manage to post $15 billion collateral on this division's
> screwups (which we had to loan them), all while giving the ~400 people
> at AIGFP _all_ million dollar salaries. Talk about dumb risk models.
> Meanwhile, they've had their credit rating downgraded twice since 2005
> before they went crying to the Federal Reserve.
>
> Marcus
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org