Re: symmetry breaking video

[Vladimyr Burachynsky]

Nick,

 

Take a look at this video http://www.dhingana.com/video/rodin-coil-vortex-in-water/related-_-d71vJQ89M/1

 

You can see the water level rising as it is thrown to the side and nearly empty toward the centre.

The experiment is also happily modest .

 

Vladimyr

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Nicholas Thompson
Sent: July-02-11 10:47 PM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] symmetry breaking

 

Vladimyr,

 

I love it!  I am going on a trip, so unless my host is particularly forgiving, fear that I wont be able to try it at his house, but I sure will when I get back.  Contrary to Lee, I don’t think, however, that confined water has anything to do with it.  Plumbing systems have pressure release pipes that vent gas upward as water rushes downward from the sink.  But the straw is a nice test of that proposition.  

 

Nick

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Vladimyr Burachynsky
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 8:54 PM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] symmetry breaking

 

Hello All,

 

Years ago I ran some funky little tests spinning liquid epoxy on a platter to attempt perfect parabolas.

The equations required angular velocity and viscosity to get the correct equation for curvature.

If your sink is analogous then the swirling motion should leave the water near the drain at the lowest point with the lowest pressure. The surface near or at the margins should contain more water. The surface area has also changed.

 

So now you should get a long soda straw and stick into the drain and see if there is a relationship to the air in the system trying to escape the drain .

 

A suggestion, set up a free Sky Drive account and dump some video with notes and we can all have a look without  the Viagra adverts.

 

Sprinkle some floaters ( rubber duckies) and see how they travel perhaps.

 

Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky PhD

 

 

[hidden email]

 

 

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Winnipeg,Manitoba, R2J3R2

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From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: June-30-11 1:32 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] symmetry breaking

 

So here's a vortex game for you all.  

 

There is a fleet of sail boats racing from Newport, Rhode Island across the Atlantic to the mouth of the English Channel.  If you go to http://www.nyyc.org/transatlantic/ and click on [Tracker] you'll get a map of the North Atlantic with the positions and tracks of the boats marked.  The red line is the great circle from south of Nantucket to the finish, the shortest path.  

 

Up on the control bar there's a button which will turn on a wind direction/intensity overlay so you can see the low pressure SE of Greenland with an eastern arm that stretches almost to the Azores;  the high pressures centered west of Brest, SW of Greenland, way south of the Great Banks; and the head wind that the fleet is beating into.  There's a slider under the weather button which allows you to step the wind overlay forward in time to the predicted winds at 3hour intervals in the future.

 

Find the fastest path given where the wind is, how well you can drive the boat, and where you expect you and the wind will be on the next watch.  The wind arrows the map shows are from the freely available NOAA GRIB models, but most of those boats are getting the best weather predictions that money can buy.

 

Human ingenuity vs fluid dynamics, the state of the art, no doubt getting very wet at the moment.

 

-- rec --

 

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

There are several papers from Ken Dill and students that deal with these approaches.  And i don't think you missed them, they turned up after a discussion on Maximum Entropy Production principles.

 

-- rec --

 

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 6/30/11 8:02 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:

Thanks, Eric, for taking the question seriously.  I will study your answer

with care. 

Ask a simple question, and waddya get?
    Another day older and deeper in (conceptual) debt!

Eric says:

" All these

flow problems that we talk about are not described by equilibrium ensembles;

they are ensembles of processes.  Of course, everybody says that, but

apparently most of the time people don't act as if saying that should then

carry meaning for what they think afterward.  (Like other mantras, its

function appears to be to suppress pre-frontal cortex activity.) "

What a great insight!  I wonder how much of our blather here on this list is in fact crafted or selected for it's ability to suppress pre-frontal cortex activity? Wow!  While we *think* we are promoting pre-frontal activity, we may very well be supressing it!  I wonder if there is a simple heuristic for recognizing "mantras" in clear text?

Going recursive here, I wonder about the brain-state/chemistry that might be involved in our (my!) propensity for (near) idle speculation about things I know just enough about to be dangerous.  There seems to be something very soothing about this kind of speculation... hmmm?

As for the rest of your (Eric) response!  What a lot to unpack... I mostly get process vs equilibrium ensembles, spaces of histories and and some of the entropy talk, but am lost entirely on the topic of competing definitions of "diffusion" and it's precise relevance to this conversation... I'll give it my best shot though... dig a little deeper.

I believe This is the Dill paper you refer to?  I missed it the first time it was passed around I think. Or with your just-out re-attribution to RC, rather than NT  And here is a lecture by Dill at MIT that might be more accessible by some?

- Steve

 

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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org