Re: [sfx: Discuss] Re: Arthur Benjamin's formula for changing math education | Video on TED.com

[Owen Densmore]

Agreed: a special keyboard would not work, but how about TeX producing  
the mathematical notation you'd like?

You'd type the TeX, and it could replace the TeX with the MN.  Then,  
if you needed to edit the MN, you'd double click on it to add/remove  
the TeX script.  Having an edit/view mode has worked find in other  
contexts.

I'm not a TeX expert, but judging from all the books that use it  
successfully, I think you could create the beautiful and succinct  
notation you see in the books.

AND, you could send it to me (email, web page, blog, wiki, ..) so that  
I could enjoy it too!

     -- Owen


On Jul 1, 2009, at 4:50 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:

> I am reading Spivak's book(s) on differential geometry (there are 5
> volumes).  This includes topics like vector bundles, tensors, Lie  
> groups,
> Riemannian metrics and de Rahm cohomology.  I find the notation to be
> beautiful and succinct and I think it would be very difficult to  
> treat those
> topics with only the symbols on a standard keyboard.  Obviously TeX  
> or other
> tools can convert such symbols to the elegant notation but...
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joseph Traub
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:20 PM
> To: Owen Densmore; [hidden email]
> Cc: Joseph Traub; [hidden email]
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] [FRIAM] Arthur Benjamin's formula for  
> changing math
> education | Video on TED.com
>
> Owen,
>
> I find nothing to argue with in Benjamin's talk. He says that students
> studying economics, science, engineering, or math should learn  
> calculus
> but that it may not be needed by other students who should study
> probability and statistics.
>
> However, I don't understand your comment that math notation is the  
> roman
> numerals of our times. Which branch of math do you have in mind?  
> Certainly
> not calculus, where, as you know, we use Leibniz's elegant notation.
>
> I also don't follow your comment about discrete versus continuous.
> Among theoretical computer scientists, people who want to understand
> the power of the computer and questions such as P vs NP study discrete
> problems whereas people like me who want to solve problems
> coming from, say, physics or computational finance think about solving
> continuous problems such as path integration.
>
> Best, Joe
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Joseph F. Traub,   Edwin Howard Armstrong Professor of Computer  
> Science
>                    and External Professor, Santa Fe Institute
>
> [hidden email]          http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~traub
>
> Phone: [phone]    Messages: [phone]    Fax: (212)  
> 666-0140
>
> Columbia University
> Computer Science Department
> 1214 Amsterdam Avenue, MC0401
> New York, NY 10027
> USA
>
> Administrative Assistant: Sophie Majewski
> [hidden email] [phone]
>
>
> **************************************************************
>
>  From: Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
>  Date: June 29, 2009 12:07:14 PM MDT
>  To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <[hidden email]>,
>  General topics & issues <[hidden email]>
>  Subject: [FRIAM] Arthur Benjamin's formula for changing math  
> education |
>  Video on TED.com
>  Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>  <[hidden email]>
>
>  This is kinda cool and less than 3 minutes long!
>
> http://www.ted.com/talks/arthur_benjamin_s_formula_for_changing_math_educati
> on.h
>  tml
>
>  The thesis is a different spin on my claim that modern Math  
> Notation (MN)
> is
>  the roman numerals of our times.  Arthur Benjamin clearly explains
>  that  statistics and probability should be the "pinnacle" of our  
> basic
> math
>  education, not calculus.  His reasoning includes the discrete vs
> continuous
>  argument that resonates with my MN vs Algorithm (or MN vs script)  
> concern,
>  which I'd love to see resolved in a parsable reworking of MN.
>
>     -- Owen
>
>
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[Russell Standish]

People have been using TeX notation for years to get around ASCII tex
limitations on emails and newsgroup postings.

Of course, it is also subject to perennial complaints from the users
of wordprocessors like MS Word, who'd like to enter stuff the GUI way. So
they end up including pictures or strange fonts that those who prefer
using traditional text-based clients end up complaining about.

And so it goes, and nothing really changes very much.

MathML was supposed to be a solution, only its not, because it is
dreadful to read, let alone write, and hardly anyone knows it.

The only thing I've seen better than TeX notation is the maths
environment on Wikpedia - so one can use a Wiki "blackboard" to have
online discussions. Interestingly, the Wikpedia thing does support TeX
input, as well as buttons etc for the MathTypers out there. And you
get to read typeset mathematics in your browser, which beats reading
TeX notation (even for us hardened TeXperts)

Cheers

On Wed, Jul 01, 2009 at 05:40:54PM -0600, Owen Densmore wrote:

> Agreed: a special keyboard would not work, but how about TeX producing the
> mathematical notation you'd like?
>
> You'd type the TeX, and it could replace the TeX with the MN.  Then, if you
> needed to edit the MN, you'd double click on it to add/remove the TeX
> script.  Having an edit/view mode has worked find in other contexts.
>
> I'm not a TeX expert, but judging from all the books that use it
> successfully, I think you could create the beautiful and succinct notation
> you see in the books.
>
> AND, you could send it to me (email, web page, blog, wiki, ..) so that I
> could enjoy it too!
>
>     -- Owen

--

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