Re: Self publishing

[Nick Thompson]

Ok, you can be Russell4,

Your figure of 20K:  That includes some $$$ for "staff"?  

Or is that just stuff?  I know this is naïve, but do you actually NEED a
printer?  

Is there a "Peer-review-Journal ap" like there apparently is an
academic-conference-running ap?

This is something I would like to hear you get into the weeds about.  

Nick



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Russell Standish
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 2:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Self publishing

Looks like I've been demoted to Russell3 :(

Pretty much right. The other costs are almost negligible - running a
webserver, email/office equipment etc.

I estimated that it should only cost around $20,000 per annum to run a
journal... We had the funding at that level.

Cheers

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 06:00:58PM -0700, Nicholas  Thompson wrote:

> Russell3,
>
> Other than your time, what are the journal costs?  I mean roughly.  
> What are the categories of cost?
>
> I am having a hard time imagining any.  
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Russell Standish
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:14 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Self publishing
>
> I self-published Theory of Nothing after the first 10 publishers
> turned it down for "economic reasons" through BookSurge, which was
> later bought by Amazon.
>
> It has sold somewhere in the region 550 copies to date.
>
> I made my costs back within a year - but the ebook version hardly sold
> at all, even though I insisted on it being DRM-free. So I then
> released it as a free DRM-free downloadle PDF, and it was downloaded
> more than 2000 times before being torrented 18 months later. The
> availablility of the free download had almost no impact on the sales
> of the hardcopy version - one could argue that it even sustained the
> rate of sales, when otherwise it might have trailed off.
>
> If you think how many people actually read your academic articles,
> this is a roaring success story. The one thing it is not, is a viable
> source of income. I can't give up my day job :(.
>
> Late last year, I produced a second edition, correcting a number of
> errors, most trivial typos. At the same time, I produced a Kindle
> version, which is sold through Kindle direct. Surprisingly, this has
> not done so well - surprising because the Kindle is a dreadful
> displayer of PDF documents (particularly with mathematical formulae),
> so the small sticker price should be worth it for Kindle users over and

above the free PDF document.

>
> ----
>
> My second data point is an electronic journal "Complexity International"
> which was started by a friend of mine in 1993. It is a peer reviewed
> journal in the traditional sense but is purely web based and openly
> available without subscription fees.
>
> It has run with fits and starts until now - at present, I gather,
> they're not accepting submissions, but aim to at least keep the content

available.

> Part of that is due to funding being in fits and starts. Another
> problem was that it never got indexed by ISI.
>
> In 2005 I offered to run the editing of the journal on the basis of
> 0.5-1 day per week workload, for which I would receive a small fee
> from a government funded networking program for complexity science. My
> friend said that I was drastically underestimating the time commitment
> for editing a journal, but I was basing my estimates on what Mark
> Bedau said he and secretary spend on editing Artificial Life. Anyway,
> the upshot was that nothing happened at the time, although he did
> manage to find someone to process the back log of submission and
> conference papers they had at the time. And now, I guess funding has run

out, and the journal is on ice :(.

>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 09:39:20PM -0700, Nicholas  Thompson wrote:
> > Hi, everybody,
> >
> >  
> >
> > I have signed perhaps a dozen Publishers Agreements over my life
> > time and each one was more onerous, self-serving, and stupid than
> > the one before.  My favorite was the publisher who asked me to "hold
> > the Publisher harmless for anything that might occur as a
> > consequence of the
> publishing of the work."
> > I asked a lawyer if this meant I was liable if a printer got his
> > hand caught in the press while my book was running and he answered,
> > "Well, probably not."  And then he thought for a moment and said,
> > "Oh, they'ld never come after you for that!" Early contracts limited
> > my liability to the income from royalties, and one publisher
> > actually
> provided authors' insurance for a
> > modest premium.  But no more.    
> >
> >  
> >
> > Well today, I got an author's contract for a paper I am contributed
> > to an academic collection that asked me to warrant that the work had

been

> > commissioned by the publisher and was "work for hire".   Now,  work for
> hire
> > means that one's surrenders ALL rights to the work including the
> > right to claim it as one's own work.  It's the kind of contract you
> > sign when you write jacket copy for a publisher.  ( The publisher in
> > this case was Oxford University Press, in case any of you are
> > thinking of doing business with
> > them.)  I am a wishy washy fellow, but somehow I could not sign a
> > document that said that my original work was "work for hire."  
> > Couldn't do
> it.
> >
> >  
> >
> > It's too late for this work.  I will have to sign the rights over to
> > my [young] collaborator, because she desperately needs the paper for
> > her career.  But MAN! It got me to thinking.  WHAT ABOUT self
> > publishing.  With, say, Amazon" Does anybody on the list have any
> > experience with Amazon or other self publishing services that they
> > would
> like to share?
> >
> >  
> >
> > My Dad was a book publisher, and I grew up with conversations around
> > the dinner table about "developing authors" and trying to find new
> > authors, and how a few books might have to be published before a new
> author caught on.
> > They published Churchill's Memoires and Mein Kampf (!) and the Peterson
> > Field Guides, among many others.   Now, it seems, publishers do very
> little,
> > and academic publishers, in particular,  do nothing but scavenge off
> > the fetid bits coughed up the publish or perish system. Is is it
> > time to
> dump
> > them?   I am sure this is a party I am late to.  Where do I get invited.

> >
> >  
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >  
> >
> > Nicholas S. Thompson
> >
> > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> >
> > Clark University
> >
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> >
> > http://www.cusf.org <http://www.cusf.org/>
> >
> >  
> >
> >  
> >
>
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at
> > cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
> > http://www.friam.org
>
>
> --
>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Prof Russell Standish                  Phone [phone] (mobile)
> Principal, High Performance Coders
> Visiting Professor of Mathematics      [hidden email]
> University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
> http://www.friam.org
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
> http://www.friam.org

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof Russell Standish                  Phone [phone] (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics      [hidden email]
University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Russell Standish]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:22:02PM +0530, Sarbajit Roy wrote:

> Dear Russel
>
> This may be somewhat Odd-Topic for this list. (apologies)
>
> Thanks for mentioning your book, I've located the PDF.
>
> Chapter 2 starts with Gospel John 1:1
>
> "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
> Word was God."
>
> I wonder if this would compare with a verse from the "Ishavasya
> Upanishad" (its one of the deprecated Vedas) "purnamadah purnamidam
> ... " which is a conventional entry point to the study of Vedas... and
> not mentioned in your book at ll.
>
> http://revolutionwithin.me/2009/11/03/the-whole-remains-whole-oneness-and-nothingness/
>
> www.arshavidyacenter.org/verse/purna.pdf
>
> <snip>
> "Om pUrNamadah pUrNamidaM pUrNAt pUrNamudacyate
> PUrNasya pUrNamAdAya pUrNamEvAvashiSyate
>
> This is an innocuous looking verse: one noun, two pronouns, three
> verbs and a particle for emphasis. Yet, someone once said: "Let all
> the UpaniSads disappear from the face of the earth - I don't mind so
> long as this one verse remains."
>
> Can one small verse be so profound? "Of course not. Utter
> nonsense!" would have been the response of a certain Englishman, who
> did not find the verse sensible at all, let alone profound. This
> Englishman, who was something of a scholar, asked a pundit to teach
> him the UpaniSads. The pundit, agreeing, began the course of study
> with ISAvAsyOpaniSad, the text traditionally studied first by a new
> student. The text begins with the SantipaTa (prayer verse): "Om
> pUrNamadah pUrNamidaM ." The pundit carefully translated the opening
> verse into English:
>
> That is whole; this is whole;
> >From that whole this whole came;
> >From that whole, this whole removed,
> What remains is whole.
>
> The Englishman stopped his study at that point and did not go
> further! He said that the UpaniSads are the "prattlings of an
> infantile mind."
>
> Which point of view is correct? Is this verse something which is
> wondrous and profound or is it just "infantile prattlings"?"
>
>

John 1:1 is rather flowery and redundant text, but that could be to
emphasise what is being said. It kind of makes sense, at least in
comparison with what I discuss on that chapter.

As I'm prone to say, the Bible is the most influential work of fiction
in English literature, although Shakespeare must be close. It is a
good source of quotable quotes.

As for the Upanishads, the English translation doesn't immediately
make sense to me. That could be because I don't have the requisite
cultural background, or it could be that the translation is far from
perfect. I wouldn't just assume that they are "infantile prattlings".

Cheers

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof Russell Standish                  Phone [phone] (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics      [hidden email]
University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Russell Standish]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:35:19AM -0700, Nicholas  Thompson wrote:
> Ok, you can be Russell4,
>
> Your figure of 20K:  That includes some $$$ for "staff"?  
>
> Or is that just stuff?  I know this is naïve, but do you actually NEED a
> printer?  

Its pretty much entirely "staff". Other costs are almost negligible by
comparison, and can often be absorbed by other activities.

>
> Is there a "Peer-review-Journal ap" like there apparently is an
> academic-conference-running ap?

What's an ap? Do you mean an app? What would such a thing do anyway?

>
> This is something I would like to hear you get into the weeds about.  
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
> Of Russell Standish
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 2:00 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Self publishing
>
> Looks like I've been demoted to Russell3 :(
>
> Pretty much right. The other costs are almost negligible - running a
> webserver, email/office equipment etc.
>
> I estimated that it should only cost around $20,000 per annum to run a
> journal... We had the funding at that level.
>
> Cheers
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 06:00:58PM -0700, Nicholas  Thompson wrote:
> > Russell3,
> >
> > Other than your time, what are the journal costs?  I mean roughly.  
> > What are the categories of cost?
> >
> > I am having a hard time imagining any.  
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> > Behalf Of Russell Standish
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:14 PM
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Self publishing
> >
> > I self-published Theory of Nothing after the first 10 publishers
> > turned it down for "economic reasons" through BookSurge, which was
> > later bought by Amazon.
> >
> > It has sold somewhere in the region 550 copies to date.
> >
> > I made my costs back within a year - but the ebook version hardly sold
> > at all, even though I insisted on it being DRM-free. So I then
> > released it as a free DRM-free downloadle PDF, and it was downloaded
> > more than 2000 times before being torrented 18 months later. The
> > availablility of the free download had almost no impact on the sales
> > of the hardcopy version - one could argue that it even sustained the
> > rate of sales, when otherwise it might have trailed off.
> >
> > If you think how many people actually read your academic articles,
> > this is a roaring success story. The one thing it is not, is a viable
> > source of income. I can't give up my day job :(.
> >
> > Late last year, I produced a second edition, correcting a number of
> > errors, most trivial typos. At the same time, I produced a Kindle
> > version, which is sold through Kindle direct. Surprisingly, this has
> > not done so well - surprising because the Kindle is a dreadful
> > displayer of PDF documents (particularly with mathematical formulae),
> > so the small sticker price should be worth it for Kindle users over and
> above the free PDF document.
> >
> > ----
> >
> > My second data point is an electronic journal "Complexity International"
> > which was started by a friend of mine in 1993. It is a peer reviewed
> > journal in the traditional sense but is purely web based and openly
> > available without subscription fees.
> >
> > It has run with fits and starts until now - at present, I gather,
> > they're not accepting submissions, but aim to at least keep the content
> available.
> > Part of that is due to funding being in fits and starts. Another
> > problem was that it never got indexed by ISI.
> >
> > In 2005 I offered to run the editing of the journal on the basis of
> > 0.5-1 day per week workload, for which I would receive a small fee
> > from a government funded networking program for complexity science. My
> > friend said that I was drastically underestimating the time commitment
> > for editing a journal, but I was basing my estimates on what Mark
> > Bedau said he and secretary spend on editing Artificial Life. Anyway,
> > the upshot was that nothing happened at the time, although he did
> > manage to find someone to process the back log of submission and
> > conference papers they had at the time. And now, I guess funding has run
> out, and the journal is on ice :(.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 09:39:20PM -0700, Nicholas  Thompson wrote:
> > > Hi, everybody,
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > I have signed perhaps a dozen Publishers Agreements over my life
> > > time and each one was more onerous, self-serving, and stupid than
> > > the one before.  My favorite was the publisher who asked me to "hold
> > > the Publisher harmless for anything that might occur as a
> > > consequence of the
> > publishing of the work."
> > > I asked a lawyer if this meant I was liable if a printer got his
> > > hand caught in the press while my book was running and he answered,
> > > "Well, probably not."  And then he thought for a moment and said,
> > > "Oh, they'ld never come after you for that!" Early contracts limited
> > > my liability to the income from royalties, and one publisher
> > > actually
> > provided authors' insurance for a
> > > modest premium.  But no more.    
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Well today, I got an author's contract for a paper I am contributed
> > > to an academic collection that asked me to warrant that the work had
> been
> > > commissioned by the publisher and was "work for hire".   Now,  work for
> > hire
> > > means that one's surrenders ALL rights to the work including the
> > > right to claim it as one's own work.  It's the kind of contract you
> > > sign when you write jacket copy for a publisher.  ( The publisher in
> > > this case was Oxford University Press, in case any of you are
> > > thinking of doing business with
> > > them.)  I am a wishy washy fellow, but somehow I could not sign a
> > > document that said that my original work was "work for hire."  
> > > Couldn't do
> > it.
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > It's too late for this work.  I will have to sign the rights over to
> > > my [young] collaborator, because she desperately needs the paper for
> > > her career.  But MAN! It got me to thinking.  WHAT ABOUT self
> > > publishing.  With, say, Amazon" Does anybody on the list have any
> > > experience with Amazon or other self publishing services that they
> > > would
> > like to share?
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > My Dad was a book publisher, and I grew up with conversations around
> > > the dinner table about "developing authors" and trying to find new
> > > authors, and how a few books might have to be published before a new
> > author caught on.
> > > They published Churchill's Memoires and Mein Kampf (!) and the Peterson
> > > Field Guides, among many others.   Now, it seems, publishers do very
> > little,
> > > and academic publishers, in particular,  do nothing but scavenge off
> > > the fetid bits coughed up the publish or perish system. Is is it
> > > time to
> > dump
> > > them?   I am sure this is a party I am late to.  Where do I get invited.
>
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > >
> > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> > >
> > > Clark University
> > >
> > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> > >
> > > http://www.cusf.org <http://www.cusf.org/>
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> >
> > > ============================================================
> > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at
> > > cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
> > > http://www.friam.org
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Prof Russell Standish                  Phone [phone] (mobile)
> > Principal, High Performance Coders
> > Visiting Professor of Mathematics      [hidden email]
> > University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
> > http://www.friam.org
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe
> > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at
> > http://www.friam.org
>
> --
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Prof Russell Standish                  Phone [phone] (mobile)
> Principal, High Performance Coders
> Visiting Professor of Mathematics      [hidden email]
> University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
> unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof Russell Standish                  Phone [phone] (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics      [hidden email]
University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Sarbajit Roy (testing)]

Dear Victoria

I appreciate that you have contacted me directly. I emphaticially
state that I have never believed that these are "infantie prattlings"
and I'm sorry I've led you to believe so..

It wan't a "hypothetical / mythic Englishman" and neither were the
word mine. The words were those of Swami Dayanand Saraswati (founder
of Arya Samaj) referring to Max Muller (I suspect) and as extracted
from the preceding link I gave to an online PDF file .

Hope this clears the confusion.. PS I'm posting my reply to the FROAM
list in case anybody else there misunderstood me. Once again thanks
for pointing this out.

Sarbajit


On 2/17/12, Victoria Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Mr. Roy-
> Re:
>
>> That is whole; this is whole;
>>> From that whole this whole came;
>>> From that whole, this whole removed,
>> What remains is whole.
>>
>> The Englishman stopped his study at that point and did not go
>> further! He said that the UpaniSads are the "prattlings of an
>> infantile mind."
>>
>> Which point of view is correct? Is this verse something which is
>> wondrous and profound or is it just "infantile prattlings"?"
>>
> Whatever your personal and intellectual beliefs, you come from a land
> inestimably rich in deep spiritual traditions, traditions that in many
> ways are much more humane and functional than Old Testament
> Christianity. I am a student of the Vedas, and even taught myself
> Sanskrit so I could attempt to read the Gita in the original and
> understand better.
>
> When Russell's latest Friam email to you appeared, I was stunned that
> you could - anyone could - for a nanosecond seriously consider these
> words to be no more that "infantile prattlings". I thought of various
> short responses I might make. I thought of how to add a comment. How
> to condense the thousands of years of deep committed practice implicit
> in the Vedas into a few witty phrases. I am just a student. The power
> of these early Vedic writings lies precisely in their attempt to
> define something whose nature is not definable. The Sanskrit does its
> best: but even this language, known for puns, double entendres, layers
> of meaning everywhere, can only point toward an experience of the
> whole. Language cuts apart and wraps edges around ideas, to separate
> 'cat' from 'dog', 'man' from 'woman'. How can language then accurately
> express absence of edges, that whole is this whole.
>
> The Upanishads and the Gita strike a personal chord that none of
> Christianity does. I envy you your innate connection with such power
> and beauty, with the majesty of spirit.
> Why not ask within yourself for this answer, rather than someone
> outside of you? Do you truly think it likely that the Isha Upanishad
> is nothing more than infantile prattlings?
>   The blind arrogant ignorance of this mythic Englishman is bad
> enough. But that you, fortunate enough to be surrounded by this
> tradition, would seriously inquire if he was right, when me, nominally
> Lutheran, feel my heart break open at the beauty and truth in these
> writings, saddens me.
>
> Thank you for your time-
> Victoria
>
>
> Tory Hughes
> unusual objects and unique adornments
> www.toryhughes.com
> www.toryhughes-galleryshop.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2012, at 3:22 PM, Russell Standish wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:22:02PM +0530, Sarbajit Roy wrote:
>>> Dear Russel
>>>
>>> This may be somewhat Odd-Topic for this list. (apologies)
>>>
>>> Thanks for mentioning your book, I've located the PDF.
>>>
>>> Chapter 2 starts with Gospel John 1:1
>>>
>>> "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
>>> Word was God."
>>>
>>> I wonder if this would compare with a verse from the "Ishavasya
>>> Upanishad" (its one of the deprecated Vedas) "purnamadah purnamidam
>>> ... " which is a conventional entry point to the study of Vedas...
>>> and
>>> not mentioned in your book at ll.
>>>
>>> http://revolutionwithin.me/2009/11/03/the-whole-remains-whole-oneness-and-nothingness/
>>>
>>> www.arshavidyacenter.org/verse/purna.pdf
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>> "Om pUrNamadah pUrNamidaM pUrNAt pUrNamudacyate
>>> PUrNasya pUrNamAdAya pUrNamEvAvashiSyate
>>>
>>> This is an innocuous looking verse: one noun, two pronouns, three
>>> verbs and a particle for emphasis. Yet, someone once said: "Let all
>>> the UpaniSads disappear from the face of the earth - I don't mind so
>>> long as this one verse remains."
>>>
>>> Can one small verse be so profound? "Of course not. Utter
>>> nonsense!" would have been the response of a certain Englishman, who
>>> did not find the verse sensible at all, let alone profound. This
>>> Englishman, who was something of a scholar, asked a pundit to teach
>>> him the UpaniSads. The pundit, agreeing, began the course of study
>>> with ISAvAsyOpaniSad, the text traditionally studied first by a new
>>> student. The text begins with the SantipaTa (prayer verse): "Om
>>> pUrNamadah pUrNamidaM ." The pundit carefully translated the opening
>>> verse into English:
>>>
>>> That is whole; this is whole;
>>>> From that whole this whole came;
>>>> From that whole, this whole removed,
>>> What remains is whole.
>>>
>>> The Englishman stopped his study at that point and did not go
>>> further! He said that the UpaniSads are the "prattlings of an
>>> infantile mind."
>>>
>>> Which point of view is correct? Is this verse something which is
>>> wondrous and profound or is it just "infantile prattlings"?"
>>>
>>>
>>
>> John 1:1 is rather flowery and redundant text, but that could be to
>> emphasise what is being said. It kind of makes sense, at least in
>> comparison with what I discuss on that chapter.
>>
>> As I'm prone to say, the Bible is the most influential work of fiction
>> in English literature, although Shakespeare must be close. It is a
>> good source of quotable quotes.
>>
>> As for the Upanishads, the English translation doesn't immediately
>> make sense to me. That could be because I don't have the requisite
>> cultural background, or it could be that the translation is far from
>> perfect. I wouldn't just assume that they are "infantile prattlings".
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> --
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Prof Russell Standish                  Phone [phone] (mobile)
>> Principal, High Performance Coders
>> Visiting Professor of Mathematics      [hidden email]
>> University of New South Wales          http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>>
>
>

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org