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Re: New information on COVID-19y bb

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thompnickson2

Re: New information on COVID-19y bb

Remind me, someone. Why are we all buying oximeters? I thought the burden of the Times article was that IF you are sick from a “cold”, don’t wait to test your O2 levels until you EXPERIENCE difficulty breathing, because by then it might be too late. Do you all have colds? I suppose, given that it takes Amazon six weeks to get one, you are wise to get a jump on it.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:40 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] New information on COVID-19

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 8:32 PM Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

I wonder if any of those cell phone pulsimeters could be upgraded to oximeters with some calibration?

There are a bunch of cell phone pulse oximeter apps that use the cell phone flash and camera, but I don't get the feeling that they've been calibrated much. It's a lot easier to write the code, call it entertainment, and reap the ad revenues that to actually determine what the measurement means in the general population. Some apps have even added some of the other pulse oximeter functions, perfusion, respiratory pleth, Then, again, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2921597 says "Smartphone-based pulse oximetry is not inferior to standard pulse oximetry in pediatric patients without hypoxia. Reliability was superior for PBA compared with CBA, with more precise agreement for the PBA compared with the CBA. Future studies should test pulse oximetry apps in a hypoxic pediatric population." That was published in 2018.

There's an interesting series of press releases from UIUC claiming that measuring someone's gait (with cellphone accelerometers) over a 6 minute walk is enough to get a good estimate of O_2 saturation, because people who aren't getting enough O_2 apparently walk funny.

Here's an android app on github, https://github.com/YahyaOdeh/HealthWatcher, with some more method references, the https://github.com/topics/spo2 listing has a bunch of arduino projects, too.

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Edward Angel

Re: New information on COVID-19y bb

The point is that if you check your blood oxygen level you might catch the problem before it is so bad that you have to be put on a ventilator and probably won’t survive.

_______________________

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon

Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) [hidden email]

505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel

On Apr 24, 2020, at 9:46 AM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:

Remind me, someone. Why are we all buying oximeters? I thought the burden of the Times article was that IF you are sick from a “cold”, don’t wait to test your O2 levels until you EXPERIENCE difficulty breathing, because by then it might be too late. Do you all have colds? I suppose, given that it takes Amazon six weeks to get one, you are wise to get a jump on it.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:40 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] New information on COVID-19

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 8:32 PM Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

I wonder if any of those cell phone pulsimeters could be upgraded to oximeters with some calibration?

There are a bunch of cell phone pulse oximeter apps that use the cell phone flash and camera, but I don't get the feeling that they've been calibrated much. It's a lot easier to write the code, call it entertainment, and reap the ad revenues that to actually determine what the measurement means in the general population. Some apps have even added some of the other pulse oximeter functions, perfusion, respiratory pleth, Then, again, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2921597 says "Smartphone-based pulse oximetry is not inferior to standard pulse oximetry in pediatric patients without hypoxia. Reliability was superior for PBA compared with CBA, with more precise agreement for the PBA compared with the CBA. Future studies should test pulse oximetry apps in a hypoxic pediatric population." That was published in 2018.

There's an interesting series of press releases from UIUC claiming that measuring someone's gait (with cellphone accelerometers) over a 6 minute walk is enough to get a good estimate of O_2 saturation, because people who aren't getting enough O_2 apparently walk funny.

Here's an android app on github, https://github.com/YahyaOdeh/HealthWatcher, with some more method references, the https://github.com/topics/spo2 listing has a bunch of arduino projects, too.

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Joe Spinden

Re: New information on COVID-19y bb

Excellent idea. After reading the article Merle linked, I ordered one myself.

I also found that rumor has it that an oximeter will be built into the next Apple watch and the next Watch OS. There is also a possibility that the software will work with existing Apple watches.

I just made a suggestion to Apple that IF the latter is true, they might consider releasing that part of their software as an app now. I.e., not wait until September. That would be an easy way to get something helpful out now, rather than injecting disinfectant as our esteemed leader has suggested as a cure.

Joe

On 4/24/20 10:08 AM, Edward Angel wrote:

The point is that if you check your blood oxygen level you might catch the problem before it is so bad that you have to be put on a ventilator and probably won’t survive.

Ed

_______________________

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon

Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) [hidden email]

505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel

On Apr 24, 2020, at 9:46 AM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:

Remind me, someone. Why are we all buying oximeters? I thought the burden of the Times article was that IF you are sick from a “cold”, don’t wait to test your O2 levels until you EXPERIENCE difficulty breathing, because by then it might be too late. Do you all have colds? I suppose, given that it takes Amazon six weeks to get one, you are wise to get a jump on it.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:40 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] New information on COVID-19

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 8:32 PM Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

I wonder if any of those cell phone pulsimeters could be upgraded to oximeters with some calibration?

There are a bunch of cell phone pulse oximeter apps that use the cell phone flash and camera, but I don't get the feeling that they've been calibrated much. It's a lot easier to write the code, call it entertainment, and reap the ad revenues that to actually determine what the measurement means in the general population. Some apps have even added some of the other pulse oximeter functions, perfusion, respiratory pleth, Then, again, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2921597 says "Smartphone-based pulse oximetry is not inferior to standard pulse oximetry in pediatric patients without hypoxia. Reliability was superior for PBA compared with CBA, with more precise agreement for the PBA compared with the CBA. Future studies should test pulse oximetry apps in a hypoxic pediatric population." That was published in 2018.

There's an interesting series of press releases from UIUC claiming that measuring someone's gait (with cellphone accelerometers) over a 6 minute walk is enough to get a good estimate of O_2 saturation, because people who aren't getting enough O_2 apparently walk funny.

Here's an android app on github, https://github.com/YahyaOdeh/HealthWatcher, with some more method references, the https://github.com/topics/spo2 listing has a bunch of arduino projects, too.

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-- 
Joe

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Roger Critchlow-2

Re: New information on COVID-19y bb

In reply to this post by Edward Angel

Or, the point is that you could survey for blood oxygen levels as a proxy for the wet testing that isn't available. Given severe lung damage from even mild cases, it might also proxy for the immune testing that still isn't available either.

-- rec --

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 12:08 PM Edward Angel <[hidden email]> wrote:

The point is that if you check your blood oxygen level you might catch the problem before it is so bad that you have to be put on a ventilator and probably won’t survive.

Ed

_______________________

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) [hidden email]
505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel

On Apr 24, 2020, at 9:46 AM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:

Remind me, someone. Why are we all buying oximeters? I thought the burden of the Times article was that IF you are sick from a “cold”, don’t wait to test your O2 levels until you EXPERIENCE difficulty breathing, because by then it might be too late. Do you all have colds? I suppose, given that it takes Amazon six weeks to get one, you are wise to get a jump on it.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:40 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] New information on COVID-19

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 8:32 PM Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

I wonder if any of those cell phone pulsimeters could be upgraded to oximeters with some calibration?

There are a bunch of cell phone pulse oximeter apps that use the cell phone flash and camera, but I don't get the feeling that they've been calibrated much. It's a lot easier to write the code, call it entertainment, and reap the ad revenues that to actually determine what the measurement means in the general population. Some apps have even added some of the other pulse oximeter functions, perfusion, respiratory pleth, Then, again, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2921597 says "Smartphone-based pulse oximetry is not inferior to standard pulse oximetry in pediatric patients without hypoxia. Reliability was superior for PBA compared with CBA, with more precise agreement for the PBA compared with the CBA. Future studies should test pulse oximetry apps in a hypoxic pediatric population." That was published in 2018.

There's an interesting series of press releases from UIUC claiming that measuring someone's gait (with cellphone accelerometers) over a 6 minute walk is enough to get a good estimate of O_2 saturation, because people who aren't getting enough O_2 apparently walk funny.

Here's an android app on github, https://github.com/YahyaOdeh/HealthWatcher, with some more method references, the https://github.com/topics/spo2 listing has a bunch of arduino projects, too.

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Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: New information on COVID-19y bb

In reply to this post by Edward Angel

Thanks, Ed. You are exactly right. A friend of my daughter's in Boulder who is in her late forties but has some health challenges, felt ill back toward the middle of March. She called her doctor who then asked her to check her oxygen level. It was way below 90 and he then treated her for pneumonia (I think it was steroids). She later tested positive for the virus and she seems to be fully recovered. (This was before the Times story.) Smart doctor, and maybe there's a frustrating time lag before the public gets the news.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:08 AM Edward Angel <[hidden email]> wrote:

The point is that if you check your blood oxygen level you might catch the problem before it is so bad that you have to be put on a ventilator and probably won’t survive.

Ed

_______________________

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) [hidden email]
505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel

On Apr 24, 2020, at 9:46 AM, <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote:

Remind me, someone. Why are we all buying oximeters? I thought the burden of the Times article was that IF you are sick from a “cold”, don’t wait to test your O2 levels until you EXPERIENCE difficulty breathing, because by then it might be too late. Do you all have colds? I suppose, given that it takes Amazon six weeks to get one, you are wise to get a jump on it.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:40 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] New information on COVID-19

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 8:32 PM Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

I wonder if any of those cell phone pulsimeters could be upgraded to oximeters with some calibration?

There are a bunch of cell phone pulse oximeter apps that use the cell phone flash and camera, but I don't get the feeling that they've been calibrated much. It's a lot easier to write the code, call it entertainment, and reap the ad revenues that to actually determine what the measurement means in the general population. Some apps have even added some of the other pulse oximeter functions, perfusion, respiratory pleth, Then, again, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2921597 says "Smartphone-based pulse oximetry is not inferior to standard pulse oximetry in pediatric patients without hypoxia. Reliability was superior for PBA compared with CBA, with more precise agreement for the PBA compared with the CBA. Future studies should test pulse oximetry apps in a hypoxic pediatric population." That was published in 2018.

There's an interesting series of press releases from UIUC claiming that measuring someone's gait (with cellphone accelerometers) over a 6 minute walk is enough to get a good estimate of O_2 saturation, because people who aren't getting enough O_2 apparently walk funny.

Here's an android app on github, https://github.com/YahyaOdeh/HealthWatcher, with some more method references, the https://github.com/topics/spo2 listing has a bunch of arduino projects, too.

-- rec --
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Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff