Re: Harvard

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Re: Harvard

Steve Smith

Gary -

I went to a "Timber College" (Northern AZ) but the same holds for me... they could barely muster a BS program for Physics and I had to supplement my curiosity with graduate Math/Chemistry/Enginering courses while pursuing the Physics on my own and under the tutelage of my undergrad physics professors ( who all had PhD's themselves, some from "named Universities")  Had *I* gone to a "named University", maybe I'd be smarter or more well informed or more capable... but after 30 years at LANL i *rarely* found the fact of my educatational pedigree to get in my way in any *practical* way.  I learned SO MUCH more in the ensuing work years it is hard to imagine how a more expensive, "better" education might have made me more able... maybe sooner or in a more specialized way. 

I don't begrudge those who had the resources or privilege to go to ultra expensive schools and in some cases, I think they got something really special (more as a consequence of a significant advisor/professor than the school itself).   If I *DO* begrudge them anything, it is the presumption (or sometimes outright declaration) that their education was proportionally more valuable or high quality than mine based on how much they spent.   My measly $600/semester made it possible for me to GO to college (I paid my own way, not grants, not loans, not parents... I worked and saved and worked).  I could have done my first two years a a community college at $200/semester, and would have if I had to to make it.  Some folks I worked alongside at LANL (and colleagues in academia, industry, and other labs) often were paying of $100,000 school loans for their education.  They felt that the money they had spent entitled them to extremely high salaries and special treatment and extra credit on their publications.   Maybe it did, but I was glad I did what I did and I *don't* think most of them were 2 or 10 times more able or insightful or productive than I was as they sometimes indicated.   

My daughter went my route (self-funded, no loans, no grants) but with some tuition scholarships and a little more help from me than I got from my parents, but far from a free ride.  She is now 10 years into her career as a Molecular Biologist and has bounced off a glass ceiling or two and is JUST NOW starting to bounce off the academic pedigree snobbery.  She has friends from high school or undergrad who took the high/low road of ultra expensive education (she was UCSC/UNM) and some admit that their publications seem to fly through the review process based on their pedigrees.  She is a very critical reader of journal articles and is *appalled* at how much "crap" makes it through peer review.  I doubt she would claim that researchers from big-name pedigrees do *worse* work than those without, nor that there isn't some bias *toward* more likely being better work, but it is far from clear that her work is in any way inferior to that of those who seem to get a bit of a "free pass" because of their pedigree.

I would amend your statement of "a high degree of correlation between academic prowess of an institution and the expertise of it's alumni" to say a "a measureably positive degree of correlation".  If I had it all to do over again and resources were not an issue, I would pick my education based on one or two professors, no matter *what* institution they were at.


- Steve


On 5/8/17 12:35 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
I didn't take part in the conversation Frank alludes to, nor do I want details about it, but I just want to say that it pisses me off that it has become politically correct to disparage folks who have done well for themselves and gone to good schools. I myself went to a state supported "cow college" (Kansas State University), so nobody can accuse me of being part of the "elite". I don't begrudge people getting the best education they can get, even if I had neither the financial resources nor the grades to get into such schools. A degree from a top-tier institution does not automatically confer "authority", but it certainly doesn't weaken ones credentials either. I suspect there is indeed a high degree of correlation between academic prowess of an institution and the expertise of its alumni.

On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Frank Wimberly <[hidden email]> wrote:
As many of you are aware, during a discussion of the beverage tax I mentioned that my wife studied at the Harvard Graduate School of Education which stimulated a small discussion of argument by authority.  During an in-person discussion at coffee there was a similar dynamic.  I always wondered why my wife never told people she went there.  When I met her she said she went to college "in Boston". Now I understand better.  When I tell people that I went to Berkeley the most common reaction is, "Were you there during the Free Speech Movement?".  Harvard seems to be different.  When my wife saw "The Social Network" the parts about the clubs and going to Newport during the weekend made her feel ill.  Friends, lots of perfectly nice, normal people go to Harvard.  Relax.

Frank Wimberly
Phone (505) 670-9918

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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove